Wednesday, March 29, 2006

Fine, don't go to school

Video courtesty of ABP


LA mayor suggests that criminal supporters go back to school... and they scream NO!!!

I love the split screen showing the mayor and then all the demonstrators with all the Mexican flags... not an American flag among them.


el razonador said...

Daniel -- I've just returned from L.A. where I marched Saturday with the Mexican protesters you all so despise. American flags outnumbered those of any other country by at least 10 to 1, in my estimate. I know I will get no sympathy from the crowd here (in fact, I expect nothing but the most vitriolic of responses), but I must say it was refreshing to see hundreds of thousands of young people participating in civic life in this nation where the majority of the youth are fully acculturated into the least politically active and most lethargic free electorate on the face of the earth. If nothing more, this debate will reinstill some civic mindedness in people.

My humble opinion, Daniel, is that you are either not versed in American ethnic history, or you have made a very selective and thus, distorted reading of it. This reminds me of a passage from an essay written by Randolph Bourne nearly a century ago, 1916 (when we were in the midst of a very similar debate over immigration). It is almost as if it appeared as an op-ed piece only yesterday. I know I will find no aggreement here, I don't intend to, but it was so incredibly clear last Saturday in Los Angeles, that the restricitionists are on the wrong side of history and on the wrong side of demography. No right-wing crusader who might run on a platform of maintaining a "culturally pure" American population that matches the one emblazoned in your culturally selective memories has a chance in hell of getting elected to a post of any substantial importance.

Here's the Bourne passage. Enjoy:

"We are all foreign-born or the descendants of foreign-born, and if distinctions are to be made between us they should rightly be on some other ground than indigenousness. The early colonists came over with motives no less colonial than the later. They did not come to be assimilated in an American melting-pot. They did not come to adopt the culture of the American Indian. They had not the smallest intention of "giving themselves without reservation" to the new country. They came to get freedom to live as they wanted. They came to escape from the stifling air and chaos of the old world; they came to make their fortune in a new land. They invented no new social framework. Rather they brought over bodily the old ways to which they had been accustomed. Tightly concentrated on a hostile frontier, they were conservative beyond belief. Their pioneer daring was reserved for the objective conquest of material resources. In their folkways, in their social and political institutions, they were, like every colonial people, slavishly imitative of the mother-country. So that, in spite of the "Revolution," our whole legal and political system remained more English than the English, petrified and unchanging, while in England law developed to meet the needs of the changing times.

It is just this English-American conservatism that has been our chief obstacle to social advance. We have needed the new peoples--the order of the German and Scandinavian, the turbulence of the Slav and Hun--to save us from our own stagnation. I do not mean that the illiterate Slav is now the equal of the New Englander of pure descent. He is raw material to be educated, not into a New Englander, but into a socialized American along such lines as those thirty nationalities are being educated in the amazing schools of Gary. I do not believe that this process is to be one of decades of evolution. The spectacle of Japan's sudden jump from mediaevalism to post-modernism should have destroyed that superstition. We are not dealing with individuals who are to "evolve." We are dealing with their children, who, with that education we are about to have, will start level with all of us. Let us cease to think of ideals like democracy as magical qualities inherent in certain peoples. Let us speak, not of inferior races, hut of inferior civilizations. We are all to educate and to be educated. These peoples in America are in a common enterprise. It is not what we are now that concerns us, but what this plastic next generation may become in the light of a new cosmopolitan ideal.

We are not dealing with static factors, but with fluid and dynamic generations. To contrast the older and the newer immigrants and see the one class as democratically motivated by love of liberty, and the other by mere money-getting, is not to illuminate the future. To think of earlier nationalities as culturally assimilated to America, while we picture the later as a sodden and resistive mass, makes only for bitterness and misunderstanding. There may be a difference between these earlier and these later stocks, but it lies neither in motive for coming nor in strength of cultural allegiance to the homeland. The truth is that no more tenacious cultural allegiance to the mother country has been shown by any alien nation than by the ruling class of Anglo-Saxon descendants in these American States. English snobberies, English religion, English literary styles, English literary reverences and canons, English ethics, English superiorities, have been the cultural food that we have drunk in from our mothers' breasts. The distinctively American spirit pioneer, as distinguished from the reminiscently English that appears in Whitman and Emerson and James, has had to exist on sufferance along side of this other cult, unconsciously belittled by our cultural makers of opinion. No country has perhaps had so great indigenous genius which had so little influence on the country's traditions and expressions. The unpopular and dreaded German-American of the present day is a beginning amateur in comparison with those foolish Anglophiles of Boston and New York and Philadelphia whose reversion to cultural type sees uncritically in England's cause the cause of Civilization, and, under the guise of ethical independence of thought, carries along European traditions which are no more American' than the German categories themselves."

Bruce said...

You said it perfectly, razonador. The German, Huns & Slavs were people to be molded into assimilation....they brought their ways and adapted to the new social order of the country. You also made a very important point when you stated that the colonialists came here not to assimilate with the native -american ways but to bring a form of their old ways from the old world and were not going to give themselves over without reservation. We are not saying we want a culturally pure America but we do want everybody to respect the ongoing 200 year traditions. Just like you stated when you said the colonialists came not to assimilate, NEITHER ARE THESE ASSHOLES. I see them coming into MY country and turning it into a mass of cars on blocks, trash in the street, graffiti on all buildings. I'm glad you found it refeshing to see all the "civic-minded braceros" out in the street. You were just in should have gone a little more to the south across the border and RETURNED to your obviously favorite country, you hispanic loving piece of garbage. You will never turn MY country into the shithole you obviously love and respect so much. Get the F&#$K back across the border you traitor to the American dream!!!

Bruce said...

By the way, razonador ...i watch Fox and CNN all day long at the shop. I think i would have seen 1...even 1 American flag flying if these little criminal taco bastards were flying one . I think you are LYING.....LYING just like the rest of your people!!!! All you guys want is to take this country over and turn it into Mexico North...just like stated in the AZTLAN website.

Brian B said...

El razonador,

You mean civic mindedness like this?

el razonador said...

Bruce -- You know absolutely nothing about me.

If I'm lying, then so is the L.A. Times (which, no doubt, is something you believe). You should look at the photo gallery associated with the link below.

I am Coyote said...

I have come to the point of calling these people what they are now. Terrorists.

You don't threaten to hold a nation, that you say you love, hostage.

You don't make demands like, "or else" if you are to be taken as a loving and respectfull group.

I was probably a little more lenient on the issue than say Daniel. (not much more... but a teensy bit).

But not for these marching thugs. If you are illegal and you are out there making demands like that then you are a terrorist.

What should your response be if you are illegal? You should be freaking THANKING this country for being patient thus far and ASKING us to accept you in a lenient fashion.

But no. Nope you terrorists had to disrespect the hospitality of the American people. What would you do if I came into your house at dinner time and sat down to eat. You were hospitable enough to not kick me out and served me dinner anyway.

But at the end of dinner I demanded that your wife make me an apple pie as well. Or else.

That is what these terrorist thugs are doing right now.

yip yip

el razonador said...

Brian -- no, like in the link provided at my previous post.

Bruce said...

Razonador...i like the image on Brian B's site. The civic-minded picture. Your images are made to lull us into submission while you're "hermanos" PISS all over MY "pendejo". Hoist an upside down American flag BELOW an illegal Taco-bending flag....IN MY COUNTRY on High School grounds.....YOU LIKE THIS? If you do...F%#$K YOU and your Mother!!!!

Brian B said...

el razonador,

I'm more inclined to believe my eyes than the words of an apologist for invaders.

Bruce said...

RIGHT YOU ARE BRIAN B. I'm with you all the way on those thoughts. Invaders will say anything and try to make one believe that they are not doing anything wrong when in reality they want YOUR COUNTRY!!!!

Brian B said...

Make no mistake -- my issue is not with legal immigrants, but rather with illegals, regardless of their country of origin. I was just as pissed when Hillary Clinton stood in front of a group of Illegals from Ireland and defended them.

If you want to argue that the current limits on LEGAL immigrants are too restrictiver, and need to be loosened, you've got my ear, and I'm willing to consider that possibility -- hell, I'm likely to agree with you. But if we cannot even enforce our immigration laws, their level of restrictiveness or permissiveness are irrelevant. Yes, we all came here from somewhere else. We did NOT all break the law and flagrantly flout the sovereignty of the US to do so.

Anonymous said...

Hey guys, don't take his bait as its only a diversion.

Save your energy for other tasks that have better result.

Like calling you Senator, now!

Anonymous said...

I would rather associate myself with a Mexican flag (assuming that Bruce is right and no American flags were present) than with the nazi flags that are present at Minutemen rallies. But I think the LA Times disproves his thesis.

So ... if both sides hold rallies (including Daniel himself) and ask for change. Are both sides terrorists? I thought think Daniel would be the closest to a terrorists as his events are done in connection with other pro-immigrant events and have the probability to incite violence.

I am Coyote said...

No, as I have said over on NWRepublican. It is the Mexicans that are the terrorists.

Note the murdurers running the border towns. Killing women and children and law enforcement agents. Running the Mexican government.

Now you have thugs storming American streets carrying the very flag of the government run by terrorists. Yet none of the pro-immigration apologists are making any dilineation between the two.

I am telling you. This is how the terrorism in our country will start. If our legislators give in to this behavior they will be emboldened to demand more.

Look at the French (

Perhaps our readers would like to read a little bit about how the French revolution began. How the criminal element stormed the prisons to release more criminal element then gave rise to Robespeirre.

This is how it begins.

Ric said...

Be sure to see all the images posted at Michelle's site.
I'd link the images but there are a lot.

Slogans -
"I am in my homeland"
"This is Stolen Land"

Scottiebill said...

Razonador is quoting the LA Times as if it were printing the gospel truth. Razonador does not seem to understand that the LA Times is the most ultra-liberal, Bush-hating fish wrapper on the west coast (followed very closely by the local fish wrapper, the Oregonian) and second only on the ultra-liberal list to the NY Times, the ACLU (alQaeda Civil Liberties Union), and AlQaeda Gore. As I said a couple of weeks ago about the NY Times, the only thing credible in the Times is the crossword puzzle. That Razonador takes the LA Times as truthful, fair and balanced, is testimony to his ultra-liberal, illegal alien loving, America-hating positions.

I agree with Bruce and the others, Razonador should have stayed in LA with his adopted homies.

gullyborg said...

I think it is telling that, for the most part, the people telling us we should welcome all these foreign invaders with open arms are the same people telling us that Columbus was the worst thing to happen to Aztlan...

B.M. said...

Scottie Bill, I am glad that you pointed out that the media isn't always a reliable source (unless it is promoting your own propaganda) then it it always right, but the truth you can find good and bad, to every situation, and the majority of the time everyone on this blog, looks for all of the negative. As for "illegal alien loving" why can't it be considered as human loving? and if you are a Bush supporter shouldn't you be supporting this movement of legal workers?

el razonador said...

Lots of people putting lots of words in my mouth. I don't agree with leftists who believe that they are part of la revolucion. Also, I think this element is a very small percentage of anarchists who would come out and protest anything that seemed left-leaning. I don't believe illegal immigrants are the monsters you make them out to be, just like I don't believe every person who sincerely believes immigration should be restricted to be as racist as Bruce.

For the most part, illegals are hard-working and peaceful people, I believe, and this belief is based on my experience at the rally in L.A., and on published research, such as the Pew Hispanic Center's just released report on the undocumented population. They make up nearly 5% of the entire workforce.

My arguments this whole time have been based on what I believe to be the most logical course of action, in the interest of our nation, economy, etc. to do something about the illegal immigration situation. I have made every conscious effort to base my argument on reliable, published research.

I'm not an illegal apologist. They will have to account for crossing illegally, by going to the back of the citizenship line, paying a fine, etc. as it should be.

B.M. said...

B.T.W. Bruce, how is your job holding up? Are you still haning in there? I am worried about you pal.

B.M. said...

Quote of the Day "these little criminal taco bastards"

This line shows how classy and loving a person can be, I don't want to say people though, I don't want to generalize.
That would be wrong.

Calhoun said...

That video Daniel linked is funny! And I think they started chanting "hell no we won't go"?

-A few minutes later on CNN, during Wolf Blitzer, their reporter did a live report near city hall. Some of the kids rushed up to surround him, laughing and happy, wanting to be on TV.

One of them shouted "Mexicooo!" (not "USA!") and then believe it or not, they all started throwing gang hand signs to the camera! Now that was an interesting demonstration right there.

-The organizers of these demonstrations told people to bring American flags -- showing they had to be told. That's interesting too.

-Many of these large marches have been on weekdays, like the one in Chicago. So the immigration criminals weren't at work. We've been told our country cannot function without them. I dunno, any of our cities cease to function? Did our country grind to a halt while they marched? Nope.

So that demonstrates that we actually can get along without them just fine.

Anonymous said...

I wish I was at the march to represent! lets not give up! We can put up a good arguement for this debate. Let them have a path for citizenship!!

Brian B said...


They HAVE a path to citizenship, but they have chosen to circumvent that path. If they want back on the path, let them go home, then start on the path legitimately, like the countless immigrants who have played by the rules.

Or should just open up the borders and let anyone who damn well pleases into the country?

B.M. said...

Brian, actually to be here legally the wouldn't need to go back to their country, unfortunately the majority of illegals are not aware of how to fill out the necessary paperwork. that is part of the issue

Roger Doger said...

Bruce the Barber writes: ...these little criminal taco bastards...

And you guys claim you aren't racists. Huh?

Anonymous said...

Yeah Your Not Racist Eh?

Bruce said...

I am just fine and my job is going good being as though i actually OWN the business. It's a good thing...because being a white,older,heterosexual non-taco speaking man...i couldn't get a job of any value in PC controlled Oregon. Is that a good answer for you bm? I notice your sign on initials reveal your thoughts and personality.....a stinken bowel-movement, just the same as the tacos you profess to love so much!!!

Daniel said...

El Razondor, I will concede that you are an articulate person who believes in a cause.

We just happen to be on different sides of the issue on this one.

America has a unique culture, we definitely have assimilated immigrants in the past while at the same time using some of the strong points of the other cultures.

There are some things about Mexican culture to admire. (family loyalty) But the lawlessness aspect is not one of them. (and it is prevalent) I can't welcome criminals into my country or the culture of lawlessness that they bring.

As for what everyone else said: ditto. I too see the pictures, hear the chants, read the websites. This is an invasion by people who are loyal to another country and have little or no respect for ours.

When American born children who have never been to Mexico refer to themselves as Mexican we have a huge cultural problem.

But pretend we get past the cultural and economic issues here, do we get to choose which laws we follow in this country or not?

Anonymous said...

They Are Criminals Because People Like You CALL Them Criminals.

Anonymous said...

Hey Bruce,

What barber shop do you own in Salem? I need a hair cut and am looking for a good barber.

Anonymous said...

Bruce -- Political correctness wouldn't keep you from getting a job. It's just that any employer who hears your racial slurs would rightly conclude that you're probably too stupid to do the work.

Scottiebill said...

BM, Your question about my supporting President Bush - I do support the President in nearly everything. I cannot support him on his "guest worker" program because that equates into amnesty for the illegals. Because I am a Conservative, that does not mean I have to follow in lockstep with every single idea that comes down the Conservative trail.

And, BM, I have no problem at all with LEGAL workers. I have many problems with ILLEGAL workers. There is a definite difference between the two.

B.M. said...

I am glad that no one, as far as I can gather has a problem with legal immigrants, because soon enough a lot of those that are illegal, will be considered legal.
That way no one can complain. Right?