Thursday, February 02, 2006

Atkinson on Lars

45 minutes of reading the email mess that resulted from Senator Jason Atkinson saying that he supports President Bush's "guest worker" program today on the Lars Larson show.

If you want to see a justification for this crap then go see NW Republican or Gullyborg.

If you want to hear me say that I won't tolerate this from any candidate then keep reading.

Giving criminal aliens any type of legitimate status or legal benefits (jobs) is amnesty. Bottom line: Now is NOT the time to even mention a program like this. It will only encourage a rush of new criminal aliens hoping to take advantage of this "program."

What is very frustrating for me is that the ag business won't stop fighting for this idea. Economic freedom is a republican principle but instead of fighting for economic freedom in terms of reduced regulation, relaxed child-labor laws, and a reduced minimum wage the farmer (and many Republicans) would prefer to fight for access to foreign citizens.

They would rather that money earned in this country be sent to Mexico. They would rather that our culture be diluted. They would rather that we continue to put more and more Spanish translations on everything.

And I am not going to listen to "illegal is illegal" because illegal turns to legal as soon as they get their temporary worker card.

"I won't give drivers licenses or social services to illegal aliens" (Jose, an illegal alien, just signed up for a "guest worker" program) Now Jose gets a drivers license and social services.

We can choose to hold our politicians accountable for what their positions or we can try to justify their bad ones. This issue is important to me and I would be betraying my principles if I ignored it.

We don't need long explanations, it's very simple: Do you support any program by any name that would allow criminal aliens who are here to have any sort of legitimate status or be able to work legally? Yes or no.


Boze Noze said...

Daniel,Below is my comment to your post on NWRepublicn: (I will expand below)


You and Lars are one trick ponies. Guest workers are NOT illegal immigrants and guest worker programs are not always amnesty. If the program only takes workers that are currently residing in their country of origin, then it is just a temporary work visa.

The USA has many "guest workers" in other countries, like Iraq, Kuwait and Saudi Arabia. How do you think Halliburton earns it paycheck? Do you think you can just decide to overstay your visa in Saudi Arabia?

A temporary worker program allows tracking. It also takes away the job market for those here illegally.

If we take away the benifits of being here illegally, then the flood will recede and an orderly, well tracked flow of legal immigrants and temporary workers can be established.

You and Lars are stuck on semantics, some have tried in the past to hide an amnesty program underneath the blanket of a guest worker program, but a true guest worker program is not an amnesty program by definition.


Not every version of a Guest Worker program includes a parallel amnesty program. If the only people considered eligible are those not already in the country, then it is not amnesty. If you are here illegally, you would have to go home and apply.

Imagine if Americans could no longer work as "guest workers" in foreign countries...

Daniel said...

Not every version of a Guest Worker program includes a parallel amnesty program.

The one that is proposed does. If supporting the rule of law and American soveriegnty makes me a "one trick pony" then I am guilty as charged.

It is one thing to allow work visas, it is another to allow 20 million foreign wokers to take over entire industries.

Tony said...

I say kudos to Daniel for sticking to his guns when others are reaching for the Kool Aid.

My take is at

Boze Noze said...

Did you read the letter from Matt on NW Republican?

Here’s the truth: Despite what some have said, the President’s plan does not provide amnesty for illegals currently in the country. In fact, it is Sen. Larry Craig (R-ID) (who is not carrying the President’s plan), who wants to allow illegals currently in the country to apply as a guestworker. Sen. Saxby Chambliss (R-GA) has a plan that would force illegals to return to their home countries before applying as a guestworker.

The one that the President and Chambliss proposed does NOT include amnesty. Period, end of argument. I'm going to bed.

Daniel said...

Boze Noze, I got the email. The president is proposing amnesty. He just calls it something else.

I am really tired of the semantics on this one though.

How about we simply enforce the current law before we talk about anything else? We can't even enforce our current regulations before we start talking about new ones.

Bill said...

Calling a banana an apple still makes it a banana and calling illegal aliens “guest workers” still makes them criminals.

Enforce the borders, enforce immigration laws and cut of funds to city’s that don’t. Than and only than talk about a guest worker program for those that are coming from the country of origin!

Rewarding criminal behavior only gets you more.

RINO WATCH said...

All of the discussion is exactly what caused Rinowatch to be born.

I am so sick & tired of R's who say one thing and do another.

They will no longer get away with it!

Are we eating our own? Hell No!

Unlike the D's who don't have the "NADs" (integrity) to call out their own (save Vickie Walker & a few others) Daniel HAS the NADS!

Playin' Possum said...

Busy day, coyote & Daniel!

Not my candidate [I'm in WA] but still my country...

On the surface this program sounds like the elegant compromise it purports to be. However... What really changes?

We already have guest workers, as others have blogged. Here's a look at today:

Presumably the proposed tomorrow will be similar, only far larger.

So... Pedro decides to come clean. He goes back to Mexico, gets his papers together, and comes back as a guest. Mind you, those papers are Mexican documents whose credibility is???

So what if Pedro wants to be an entrepreneur? Maybe he registers more than once? Can he be Juan and Carlos, too? How thorough will this "instant check" system go? Fingerprints? How much will that cost, and is it foolproof? Or will someone build a better fool?

So Pedro the better fool figures out how to get more than one ID and brings the extras North, selling them to his buddies...

We have accomplished ??? for how much???

Make up your own scenario - that was just a quickie that may be unworkable. The point is documents are fungible to the degree they are forgable - Now make me a forge-proof document we can afford to issue and track.

It won't work. All "we" gain for this effort is a false sense of security. Remember, Reagan was supposed to have fixed this 20 years ago. For that we trade away the chance to deal with the core issue which Daniel touches on: Labor laws and the race to the bottom globalist economics creates.

I disagree with the implied suggestion by Daniel - apologies if I put words in your mouth - that rolling back minimum wages, regulations, and child-labor laws will help. In fact, I'd say that's entirely wrong. We need the opposite.

Two choices:

Close the borders, but not just to poor fools doing the only thing they can to survive, but to the globalists as well. Protect our core industries, including the farming industries. Raise those wages and the resulting prices as well. Stop imports of competing products sold cheaper than we can produce them within a market structure that pays a living wage to the producer and his employees.


Open the border - even consider political union with Mexico - and join the race to the bottom. Watch American wage rates collapse. Oh, it'll be great for those still working - cheap goods galore. But remember, nobody is immune to outsourcing or absolute-advantage competition. Eventually every aspect of the economy will deflate: Property values will drop as the markets are glutted with bankruptcies, welfare rolls will grow until people exhaust their eligibilities, and the ranks of the dispossessed will swell. Eventually they will vastly outnumber the wealthy who reaped the margins of all this "free trade."

Then will come war. You think we have a terrorist problem now? Wait until the "terrorists" are American citizens bent on revenge, wanting only to kill the well-off and the political class who dispossessed them...

It's called a lose-lose...

Oh well. It'll make the Chinese happy...

Ric said...

A guest worker program is supported by some libertarian positions -ie CATO
PDF file - check page 11

However - until we have control of the border, we must not make it easier to cross.

Say you are a drug runner -
how hard would it be to take off someones 'Geust Worker Visa' so you could travel around the country?

It is one thing to find someone in Oklahoma with an Oregon DL - I would hope that might get LEO's to check a little closer -

And of course we already have a temporary worker program - H1B - which many call for expanding.
What about the L1 visas ?

The Chamber of Commerse is calling for expanding both of those programs.

GayRightsWatch said...

So did you take your Blogger's for Atkinson off you blog because of this?

Anonymous said...

You sir, have a terrible haircut and before you go stumping for Mr. Righty Whitey Atkinson you should address your poor hygiene issues.

Jeff said...

I agree that the guest worker program is another form of amnesty. HOWEVER, is it possible that the proposed program along with the changes at the border is the only way to effect change? We need to keep in mind is what's reasonable to implement. The alternative may be no change. Which do you want?

Ric said...

I got to hear part of Lars this afternoon - on Comcast.

Sounds like a bunch of spin control to me.

The Presidents plan would allow those currently in the US to stay while they apply for and are granted Guest Worker status. Jason said on Lars he was for that, before his campain manager today said he was absolutely not.

1st we must control our border.

2nd what exactly would a guest worker do? - Could they apply for entrance to the US, get a Visa, and then come, to be allowed then to look for a job. Or, would they have to have a job lined up before they come?

Say they get here and are looking for work, but don't have it yet. Would they get welfare, foodstamps, housing assistance?

What if they have a low paying job -would they qualify for medical care ie the Oregon Health plan.

3rd Lets enforce our current laws.

I have not written off Jason ... the purpose of the campaign is to reveal issues and concerns, as well as to introduce the candidates.

Michael T. said...

Jason Atkinson, shot himself in the foot, I would have hoped he were smater than that. You can put a dress and lipstick on a pig but it's still a pig. Illegal entry is a crime, offering guest worker status to illegal aliens, is amnesty pure and simple. History has shown us that guest workers don't leave when amnesty is given, what makes you think they would leave this time. I find it curious the arguments of the open borders crowd, is the same arguments made to justify slavery 146 years ago, who will pick our cotton, till the fields and clean the houses. History repeats itself!

Anonymous said...

El Plan de Aztlán is the plan of liberation!

I will take this one step more, that "Plan" is you gringo's are toast.

The "Plan is well known, like the Muslims...if you don't eliminate us with IED's, you take us out with babies.

The problem is Liberalism is a mental disorder, and we have not the guts, or the brains to stop this.

You shoot to kill, if caught crossing the border, then the word of our "plan" gets around nations that seek to take us down that the, "POLITICAL LIBERATION" can only come through indepen-dent action on our part, since the two-party system is the same animal with two heads that feed from the same trough. Where we are a majority, we will control; where we are a minority, we will represent a pressure group; nationally, we will represent one party: La Familia de La Raza! "THAT THE PLAN AS THEY VOICE IT......IS A SHORT TICKET TO HELL!