Tuesday, February 28, 2006

Gas tax + Mileage fee = Us getting screwed

Oregon Department Of Transportation Mileage Fee Pilot Project Kicks Off With Volunteer Recruitment
The Oregon Department of Transportation launches its mileage fee pilot project in the Portland area this week with the recruitment of volunteers for the program. Administered by ODOT's Office of Innovative Partnerships, the mileage fee pilot project will test several key aspects of charging a per mile fee at the pump in lieu of paying the state gas tax.

The mileage fee pilot project is the result of research findings from Oregon's Road User Fee Task Force, or RUFTF, created by the Oregon Legislature in 2001 to investigate new ways of generating revenue for the state's transportation system.

By "new revenue" they mean "take more money from us." I have consulted with my all-knowing and all-powerful crystal ball this morning and it told me that we are actually going to end up with both a mileage tax and a gas tax.

This is so that in the future, instead of raising the gas tax by $0.50 and getting everyone angry they can raise it by $0.25 and then raise the mileage fee by $0.25 and for some reason the masses won't make the connection that they are getting charged the whole $0.50.

And notice that the mileage tax is called a "fee" so that politicians can say they aren't supporting a "tax." Next up: the surcharge, the assessment, the levy and then a bunch of charges that will only be reffered to in acronyms so that you aren't even sure what it is you are paying for. (actually what you are paying for is PERS and the "multi-cultural" HR employees.)


RINO WATCH said...

ODOT's Office of Innovative Partnerships....

Is this the same office that "Partnered" with the Robleto's?

Just Wondering.......

Fundy said...

I realize that this is to encourage the use of mass transit but on the east side of the state we do not have such infrastructure in place, nor can we afford it.

We will really take it in the keister if this is implemented state wide, heck I have to drive 10 miles to Wal-Mart and 36 miles round trip to work.

And what about those poor illegals that are barley paid minimum wage, do they really think that they will be able to afford to drive out to the farms?


ESABATM said...

This state is sucking more and more.

Robin said...

I've been talking about this on for over a year now, and I don't think people really understand the implication of this mileage fee.

Having a GPS system in your car not only allows a variable charge at the pump, it also gives insurance companies a new method of verifying how many miles you drive so they can alter how much that they charge you per year.

just think about this for a minute. You go to the store at 3 p.m. you pay .004cents per mile... are their way home you're on that same road at 5 p.m. you're now paying .05per mile
all this comes due when you fill up at the pump.

do the math!

what's also to prevent them from charging an excise tax if you drive over so many miles per year?

did you drive over a bridge or road were there may be an additional toll, that also becomes due at the pump
If this system goes through... you might as well just give the state 100% access to your bank account because it's gotta be no different.

just like with illegal immigration, we need to tell the state of Oregon that we will not tolerate this type of revenue-generating scheme.

I asked Jason Atkinson what he felt about it several months ago, and he is totally against it.

I highly encourage you to go to ODOTS web site and read the proposals on this project. I think that you will be highly shocked.

Ric said...

I'll also point out that this punishes those who would be a part of the traditional socalist {er democrats} base - eco terrorists/nuts/evangalists.

If you have an alt fuel veh, you now pay less to use the roads, thus encouraging alt fuels.

If you pay per mile, that encourages 7 mpg pickup/suv's -- since tax makes a significant portion of your total fuel bill.

I put this in my letter to the republicans for the next session.

to repost ( you could find it here on Daniels site )
" The caucus is asking people with ideas to forward them by March 31st. Please send your ideas to the Senate Republican Office by email at sr.media@state.or.us or call 503-986-1950. "

Ric said...

Another thought on the GPS system -
if you travel at say 56 MPH
you could be e-mailed your summons to appear in court. Not much different than photo-radar, but it would be 100% of the time.

gullyborg said...

In the words of President Lisa Simpson: "I'm not going to raise your taxes. Instead, I am going to offer you a temporary rebate adjustment!"

Moe at the bar: "Did she say rebates? I like rebates!"

Anonymous said...

We must stop our State governments that are running out of control and we will come the election.

They are well aware of that fact and that is the reason they are launching all their well laid plans now, before the election.

A last Grasp, so to speak!

The news media recognizes the change in public attitude and is now more likely to tell the public the truth they have been concealing for many years. I see the changes already.

gullyborg said...

the WORST thought on the GPS, alluded to by Robin, is that not only could they tell you how many miles you go and how fast to adjust your premiums and give you tickets, but they know WHERE and WHEN you go.

what happens when they start producing "profiles" of people by logging things like how often and at what times you go to certain bars, clubs, libraries, shooting ranges...

Imagine having your car insurance premiums doubled because you spend a lot of time at night clubs, and therefore you fit the profile of a drunk driver? They could do it legally, even if you never drink when you go out, because all insurance rates are based on probabilities.

Imagine being put on some sort of "watch" list because you go to the shooting range every week!!!

and the irony is that the libtards who most support this GPS system are the same people who think that every element of the Patriot Act is an affront to their individual liberties and that no one from the NSA should be able to listen in on a phone call coming from the mountains of Tora Bora!

Oregon Republican League said...

A good overview of Oregon State transportation taxes is found at .pdf pages 65-70, of the Legislative Revenue Offices "2005 Oregon Public Finance, Basic Facts":


ESABATM said...

Also,the insurance companies look at your credit report to determine if you are a good debtor. They made correlations to bad credit and bad drivers.

Ric said...

Thanks, great resource
On Page 9, I note our total taxes went from 18th to 41st - (1 being highest in the nation) '82 thru '02

Our personal income tax is 3rd highest, however.

Property tax is right in the middle.

On page 10, our tax burden is approx 9% of income. ...

Other interesting tid-bits as you read thru the report.

Thomas said...


Applause, applause! Good points!

Especially about the libs who shriek about the Patriot Act, and the NSA's "spying". [ I'm sure there is some clear though convoluted yet circular "logic" in their support of this proposal.]

I'm keeping this as short as possible because I don't yet know how to circumvent the KSM [ Key Stroke Meter ] that Putter and Taxandgougeme have mandated as compulsary installation on our computers.

Darn! I think I just went over my alloted

Anonymous said...

As an ODOT worker, I know ODOT has already spent several million dollars on conducting this goofy GPS tax scheme. The first study was conducted by OSU in the Corvallis area. Another thing to point out is that all new vehicles would be mandatory to have this new equipment installed, hence raising the price of new vehicles. All older vehicles would have to be retrofitted with the GPS units. All fueling stations across the state would have to install the special computers and equipment. Centrally the state would have to have a bank of servers to manage all the data. Think about how much implementation would cost statewide before the state could even begin to collect any tax. It's crazy!! I don't think it is possible to think up a worse idea on how to generate additional Highway Fund revenue.

fish_on said...

Quote from Bill's talking points last night regarding trusting polls...

"I will give you one more example of how polls can deceive you and how explanations are needed. The New York Times asks this question in a poll: Would you favor or oppose an increased federal tax on gasoline? Well, 85 percent of Americans oppose, just 12 percent favor. Then The Times asked what if the increased tax on gasoline would reduce the USA's dependence on foreign oil. Well, 55 percent then favor the tax, 37 percent opposed. Quick turn around.

But what the poll fails to tell Americans is that any tax hike on gasoline would cause a price rise on almost every other product you buy, including food and clothing, because all products must be driven to the market. The higher field costs would be passed on to the consumer: you. That would most likely lead to inflation and a severe recession. So much for the dopey poll question."

Scottiebill said...

Gullyborg got it right! The same people whining about the Patriot Act are all for the GPS tracking scheme. I'll bet John Kerry and Hillary and Teddy Kennedrunk would absolutely LOVE this thing, as long as it isn't on their cars.

One other thing on the talking points against this thing allowing for the drivers to be charged for miles driven at the gas pumps - If you take an extended trip to some other state for a couple of weeks or longer, you will be charged for those miles driven outside of Oregon. To combat that one would be forced to fly, thereby having to go through all the security crap that goes on at the airports, then renting a car at your destination, or having to ride a Greyhound (heaven forbid that kind of abuse). They will have you coming and going on this one.

One possible light at the end of this tunnel - when Teddy the K gets the boot out of Salem, perhaps this screwball idea will go with him. Do you suppose?? One can only hope.

Robin said...

scottie - If you take an extended trip to some other state for a couple of weeks or longer, you will be charged for those miles driven outside of Oregon. the system is supposed to be designed to stop "counting" when you leave the state, however, what I could do is charging that you per mile rate of the new state you went in to.

But you bring up an interesting point however.

Take Lars Larson for example. He lives in Washington state but works in Oregon. If he fills up in Oregon... does most of his driving in Washington and then fills up in Oregon again, and he would only be charged for the miles that he traveled in Oregon unless the system had some way to differentiate and calculate the difference, actually be paying less. Which I doubt.

But the main point is, we cannot let the system become a reality.

Scottiebill said...

Robin: It is my understanding that the rates will be charged based on miles driven between fill-ups. If there is a mechanism put in place to deduct the out of state miles, then you can count on that one to get the boot. Oregon is not going to let a perfectly good tax get away from them.

Lars is not the only one working in Portland and living in Vancouver and buying gas in Portland. He probably buys gas in Oregon because they don't have self-serve, as many other people probably do, also

Robin said...

From ODOTs web site

"Not Count Mileage Outside of Oregon - A fee should not apply to mileage traveled by Oregonians outside the borders of Oregon."

Road User Fee Task Force

worth reading.

Scottiebill said...

Robin: How would ODOT determine Oregon mileage against out of state mileage? Probably through the GPS tracker they want to put on all cars at a cost of many, many dollars to Oregon car owners.And if one has more than one vehicle, as I do, that cost would escalate with the number of vehicles. Then, if ODOT tracks instate miles against out of state miles, then there will be loud howls of protest about "big brother" watching over us. It will be "1984" all over again.

I believe that if this thing goes through, ODOT will lose that clause in the act. As I said before, Oregon will not let a perfectly good tax get past them. And the powers that be in Oregon wonder why people and business are moving out of state. Guillermo Bradbury and Teddy the K will be proud.

Robin said...

Thank you, that is the whole point.

I also have multiple vehicles, one is a classic that is garaged. The way I understand that we would be REQUIRED to have the unit installed into our vehicles at our own expense, the last estimate that I heard was approximately $200 per unit [sorry I do not have any firm information on that at this time] else we would not be allowed to review or vehicle registrations.

To my understanding about the devices, they are only receivers with an internal map however, in order for them to maintain current pricing, they would have to be two-way communications with some device, apparently at the gas pump

The devices primary task will be to keep track of where, what time of day you traveled, was there any additional road fees such as tolls, road congestion surcharges, et cetera.

Follow the money...

I think there is a lot more to it than what we are actually being told.

First off, think about the juicy contract for the company that will be supplying millions of these devices to drivers. Especially since Oregon is not the only state considering this... it could mean huge dollars.

Since some roads will cost more to travel then another roads, how does the driver know?

Even though the state encourages ultimate transportation, it also fears hybrid vehicles, electric vehicles and high mileage vehicles although good for the economy, the government's primary focus is how much money they can make [take] from you.

Finally, are we going to put these systems on motorcycles and lawn mowers? How about diesel generators and boats. All of these paid gas tax even though except for the motorcycle they do not use the road systems.

We really need to spread the word about this because I really do not think that people truly understand the long-term implications and what it will really cost.

To spell it out...

pre-GPS --, you fill up your gas tank, it cost me $30 for me to fill up. I know a head of of time that I would be paying $2.35 per gallon. I prepaid my gas tax. No surprises. If I could only afford to buy $10 for the gas, that is what I get at the pump.

Post-GPS, when you go to the gas pump, you do not actually know how much you'll be paying per gallon in advance.
You pay your gas tax based on the miles traveled. You do not know how much it is going to cost you to fill up. Between your last fill up, you may have traveled on a road that was considered a high. congestion area therefore the per mile road tax is higher. In other words, you could travel the same route to work for, and it can cost you a different amount in gas tax depending on the time of day that you traveled.

In closing, think about what it would do to the economy. I used to deliver newspapers and travel 100 miles per day, the only way to make any money is to have a high mileage vehicle, now you just really hurt whatever little profit that I made.

We have to tell Salem loudly that we are tired of their greed and we will not allow a system like this.

Scottiebill said...

Amen, Robin. Very well put.