Thursday, October 27, 2005

How much do they hate America?

If this picture wasn't found on MoveOn.org then I might believe that the upside down flag was unintentional. If this picture wasn't created by liberals who hate our country so much that they dance on the graves of our deceased soldiers, then I might believe that the upside down flag was unintentional.

Unfortunately these people do hate America, they do hate our military, they do hate what we stand for and they hate our flag. So I absolutely believe that the picture of Old Glory on the coffin is upside down on purpose.



This is disrespectful on so many levels...

20 comments:

JonathanDavis said...

That is ridiculous, they must have put that up after I was browsing though there. Like I said, it is slap in the face to all the supportive americans and the soldiers to do this crap! They dont care about the dead soldiers, they could care less about actuall compassion, all they want is to further their damn agenda. It's a shame that we have to share the US with people like this! This picture truly hurts me.

Daniel said...

It's absolutely disgusting. I always enjoy DU and MoveOn for a daily does of pure hatred. It reminds me what I am fighting against.

Kaelri said...

Same bloody reason I stop here. Two thousand American kids are dead and you're upset because the flag is upside down. I really don't know what the hell to say to that.

Daniel said...

It is horrifying that we have any single military death.

Thankfully I believe in Heaven. I also believe that these men died fighting for a noble cause and for a great country.

I will not celebrate "milestones" that involve our military deaths and I am upset that the flag is depicted upside down. Those 2000 men, and many more before that, died protecting what that flag represents.

jwalker said...

Those kids died for high ideals. They would be ashamed of that picture. That picture is a slap to everything they died for. We are a country of ideals and that is what makes us great.

Kaelri said...

Ideals which do not include nitpicking over the portrayal of the symbol that represents them.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if many if not most Americans didn't know that the other half would take offense if the flag was rotated 180 degrees. There's a reason for that, I think: That flag stands for union, liberty and justice - three things which are maimed by judging another citizen as not merely disrespectful - disrespectfully ignorant at most, in fact - but that "these people do hate America, they do hate our military, they do hate what we stand for and they hate our flag."

Your brother Americans do not deserve to be labeled treasonous for a cosmetic oversight; and no matter the scope of this blog's influence, it, and others like it, have no right to deafen others to their voice. I cannot stop you from believing that everyone left of center is stupid-and-perverted-and-corrupt-and-inferior, but you're truly out of your mind if you don't think they consider their work to be as much their patriotic obligation as you consider yours.

"How much do they hate America?" They hate it so bloody much that they literally devote their lives to right what they believe is a sinful wrong. Would it have killed them to rotate the photograph? No. But I think "Why 2K?" is a question much worthier of everyone's time, money and pen to answer.

(Turns out I did know what the hell to say.)

Daniel said...

"Your brother Americans do not deserve to be labeled treasonous for a cosmetic oversight"

I made the point of saying that I don't think that this was a cosmetic oversight. I believe that this was done on purpose. The anarchists and America haters put the flag upside down as a symbol of disrespect to this country.

I certainly don't begrudge anyone for speaking their mind or fighting for what they believe in, but I certainly have the right to say that in my opinion, their actions and opinions are un-American.

Kaelri said...

"I made the point of saying that I don't think that this was a cosmetic oversight. I believe that this was done on purpose. The anarchists and America haters put the flag upside down as a symbol of disrespect to this country."

Yes... I was hoping that was a mere rhetorical exercise rather than an actual belief.

I'm not saying you don't have the right to believe it, I'm simply trying to explain to you how it is uncontestably wrong.

Gunslinger said...

I really question why I wear the uniform sometimes. Seriously. I have many friends on that list. I have many more over there now. There is a high likelyhood that I will go over there in the near future. And I will do it with a smile on my face and a heart full of pride.

Fuck Cindy Sheehan. All that crazy bitch did was desecrate her son's good name, and ruin the very thing he was fighting to protect.

Do I agree with the war? It isn't my place to agree or disagree. It is my place to serve my country so that people like Kaleri can celebrate the fact that 2000 of my brothers in arms have been killed, because it furthers their cause to think they have the moral high ground.

And the poor countless numbers of Iraquis killed. I could care less if it is 50 times that ammount. They are terrorists, and enemies of the security of our nation. If you don't believe that, then you need to take off your rose colored glasses.

As I see it, the death toll in this war is actually about 5 thousdand Americans killed. There are a couple thousand people at the bottom of what used to be the WTC that everyone seems to conveniently forget, who strongly suggest that we take this as far as it needs to go. If that means we need to go to Russia, France, and Germany next. So be it.

I am so sick and tired of the liberal mainstream media throwing around this "death toll." 2000 is nothing in a war. I honestly believe that in their hearts they wish the number could be bigger, because then they could be even more outraged.

I wish I had something wittier to add, but I am just a dumb grunt who is an automaton with a big bullying automatic weapon.

And to call the brave men and women who laid their lives upon the altar of freedom "kids" makes me ill. I swear to God we need a draft in this country. Unless you can pick up a weapon and stand a post, shut-up.

Tony said...

Well said, 'slinger.

Kaelri: 1. The upside down flag is a sign of distress. To suggest that our country is foundering is disrespectful. Tehy either didnt know this, in which case they showed an unpatriotic ignorance of proper flag handling, or they did it intentionally in violation of it, and are still unpatriotic.

2. The soldiers have never asked you or the rest of the surrender lobby to speak for them. Tehy arent asking to be brought home now. They arent asking you to throw their sacrifice and those of their 2000 fallen comrades to be thrown in the shitter so you can feel good about our place in this world.

every soldier I talk to, and there have been many, talk first about hteir fellow soldiers and what great people they are, and second about the importance of finishing the mission.

You cannot say "I am for the soldiers" while you crap on the mission they are fighting and dying for. That is disrespectful, and it is treason. It gives aid and comfort to the enemy, which is treason's very definition. Part of the reason we are bogged down right now is that the treason lobby has weakened the will of the American people, and changed thedebate from "how do we win" to "how do we get out?" In that sense, unless we change that back, we lose, and we have 2000 useless deaths and an energized islamic fascist army, like what happened when Clinton ran from Somalia, Khobar, WTC 1.

These throatcutters will just as sure as hell kill you and cut your throat as they would anyone else that doesnt agree to live by sharia law. If you dont believe it, take a tip over there with a dozen daisies and walk through a village and tell everyone how much you care about them.

Has anyone noticed that NOT ONE soldier in the ENTIRE COUNTRY has come back and been critical of our operation, a la John Kerry and the other traitors in the Vietnam era? You would think if it was such a boondoggle and being done so poorly, certainly they could find ONE soldier to speak out. Nope. Not one.

So go light a candle, put it in your window, and hold your "right" to speak out in favor of your "responsibility" to your country and the people being shot at to create a catalyst for worldwide peace.

I'm glad the adults are in charge, and not the liberals who we can never again trust with power.

jwalker said...

Daniel's response and our responses in my opinion are stemming from a consistant campaign to smear our troops, president and way of life my a liberal machine that will not stop until their strange ideals are shoved down our throats. We are responding because this is ONE THING in a whole list of media attempts to undermine the war and our soldiers.

What is really disturbing is that there will be so many people that don't see why this picture is dangerous.

CapitalistPig said...

Harping over every new "death milestone" only gives the enemy hope. The terrorists know that they can't defeat the US through strategic victory on the ground.

The best they can hope for is to use our own democracy against us. They hope to build the impression amongst the American Public that nothing good is happening in Iraq. They want to convince the American public that the cost is too high, so that we will use our democratic rights to force our politicians to bring the soldiers home and therefore hand the terrorists their victory.

When the media puts moveon.org in the papers protesting the war every time a new "death milestone" is reached it gives the terrorists the mistaken impression that there is widespread protest against the war amongst the American public, when the truth is that only a few far-left fringe groups are really involved in these protests. This only encourages the terrorists to get to the next "death milestone".

I don't blame moveon.org and those types for using their rights to protest. What really pisses me off is the ousized coverage these guys get in the media every time they put on their little show, because I believe this distorted war/protest coverage is directly repsonsible for causing more lives to be lost.

Kaelri said...

...just read this, please.

http://daoureport.salon.com/synopsis.aspx?synopsisId=8d187cda-6e7c-46bc-af30-fcb819c848a1

And understand these things: we do not hate America. We are not trying to destroy it. Liberals have fought and died for it in every war we've fought, including this one.

Two thousand deaths bring us no pleasure. We do not wish that number were bigger; we wish that number were two thousand smaller. Such "landmarks" are cause not for celebration but for the deepest mourning.

(They're my brothers too, gunslinger.)

If it means anything to you, liberals don't think conservatives hate America. More than anything, we think you have been deceived. There is no anger towards you; only sadness. A deep, earthshattering grief that would be futile to try to explain.

Ask me anything, but as long as you believe against all spirit and logic that I seek to betray my country, I cannot answer you.

Tony said...

K-

I do not think that you seek to betray your country, or hate
America.

I just know that the policies you and yours promote would do so despite your best intentions.

The surrender lobby has never been right...wrong about the soviets, wrong about the germans, etc. The Democrats, instead of a donkey, shoudl have an ostrich as their logo, because they consistently think that if you hide under the covers the monsters wont get you.

They think that social problems are the result of some people having too much, and if other people were given that stuff, it woudl all get better. But that philosophy does not work. It has been tried by well meaning peopel throughout history, and the result is always misery for all but the ruling class, who instead of being private interests are now public, but equally hoarding of what little wealth remains.

You cannot continually subsidize mediocrity and expect excellence in a society. No, our society rewards excellence, and gets more of it for the most people. Our homeless here live better than working people in other countries.

I bring this up because it is indicative of why I believe America is superior to any other nation. It isnt just blind nationalism. It is why I believe we have a fundamnetal right and a moral obligation to the world to preserve it as a beacon of hope to the world, and as such I believe that if we have to liberate the peopel of Iraq form an oppressive dictator to get at the intelligence there, to fight the throatcutters that are coming in from other areas there, and to set up an example to the region that Islam and democracy can work there, and to send a message to the world that tyannical behavior and subsidizing killers of innocent people will simply no longer be tolerated, because it cannot be tolerated, so be it.

And that is why I work tirelessly to change the hearts of people like you, and work even harder to make sure that you never get back in power, because it is too dangerous to trust you with power.

Tim Lewis said...

All this "open your eyes" and "you're being deceived" nonsense is condescending and ridiculous. If the mainstream media covered the facts, then the true people being deceived might be enlightened.

I highly doubt the 2000+ people that have died giving their lives to a cause they believe in (saving lives of those unable to do so themselves) would appreciate this kind of insult. MoveOn might think they're doing a good thing, but I'll take the opinion of the soldiers anyday.

Daniel said...

Kaelri, you seem like a reasonable person but there are many people (on the left) that aren't. Ward Chruchill for example. He hates America. Someone like him, rather than someone reasonable like you, created the upside down flag picture.

As for this comment: If it means anything to you, liberals don't think conservatives hate America.

No, liberals just say that conservatives hate poor people, minorities, the environment...

Anonymous said...

TOSS THIS AT A LIB:

This article is to address the seriousness of playing around during a time of war. Our enemies don't care one bit about playing fair...they are murdering and slaughtering people left and right. And the media, democrats, liberals, anti-war crowd,etc...have got to stop bashing our efforts in this war. Next week, I plan on talking about restraining the military ...the recruiters on high schools...if this is allowed to occur, our national security is at risk. People should be given the opportunity to serve if they want. Being from a military background, I'm gonna blow the lid off of some things that people didn't know about the military.--Fee

P.S. Please pass this around, it's a must read.


War games...fighting an uphill battle

War games...fighting an uphill battle



Felicia Benamon
October 27, 2005


Here we go again! I'm sure by now the American public knows of the agenda in the mainstream media to try to make the American troops look like the aggressors in the War on Terror. I sneered at the latest attempt by the media to make our troops look bad...the reports of burnt bodies of Taliban fighters U.S. troops "supposedly" desecrated. I will side with the troops as they give their reasons for burning the bodies ( Stench Prompted U.S. Troops to Burn Corpses )...they simply reeked!

Our soldiers are not in the business of "playing nice." But they will observe the rules of the Geneva Conventions. The soldiers who burnt the Taliban bodies acted within those rules. The Taliban fighters were not tortured in any way, and our troops certainly do not have an obligation to observe Muslim standards of burial. I am sure the locals had no love for the Taliban fighters, and could care less how they are buried. The action to burn the bodies was purely done out of health concerns.

I am reminded of the way that US contractors' bodies were treated, burnt and hanging from a bridge in Iraq last year, poked and prodded at by mobs. Where was the outrage after that incident?! That image should be stuck in our minds! One can't get any more disrespectful than hanging a burnt corpse from a bridge!

Speaking of which, I have just learned of an incident the media didn't report...American contractors were attacked in Iraq ...again, and one man was burned ALIVE ( Four U.S. Contractors Killed in Iraq )! Where's the media on this story?! Their priorities lie with reporting on how our soldiers are behaving in Afghanistan. No mention was made about terrorists in Iraq setting someone on fire, the poor man burning ALIVE! I believe that is over the top as far as "atrocities" are concerned. No outcry over that?! I'm sure that falls under extreme torture!

But as usual, the mainstream media continues to find fault and nitpick at our troops' methods of interrogating and engaging the enemy. Many Americans are fed up and it should stop!

Supporting an old friend

Our friend Israel continues to fight an uphill battle. I am distressed because I see that the United States is not helping as they should. We cannot tie Israel's hands! We say that the US and her allies must do all we can to eliminate terror, but instead, we urge Israel to give up land in the interest of peace. Sharon has given away land to the Palestinians...all for nothing. But has the violence against Israel ceased? No. Sharon now has a threat on his life by a terrorist group ( WorldNetDaily: 'My goal is to kill Ariel Sharon' ). Imagine if President Bush were threatened. All efforts would be made to make sure the threat were eliminated or subdued.

I hope both President Bush and Prime Minister Ariel Sharon now see that there is no negotiating...that the terror perpetrated by Islamic extremists must be completely wiped out if there is to be any peace! Terror groups who operate among the Palestinian people, and who have their support, are NOT interested in living side by side with Israel!

Propaganda continues to stream from terror organizations like Hamas to the Palestinian people, to commit horrible atrocities against Israel ( Palestinians caught smuggling mortars to Jerusalem suburbs ). And sadly, it usually involves the young ones who are taught into this lifestyle of hatred. Another generation of Palestinians tainted, with hatred in their hearts to continue the fight against Israel. Then there are others who slyly help the terrorist agenda with no concern whatsoever about life, how precious it is. For example ( Arab Terrorist's Wife Used Baby to Hide Grenade )...the wife of a terrorist uses her own newborn to hide a grenade she had on her body! How careless! Her own flesh and blood was put in danger!

There is a culture among some in Arab communities, especially among Palestinians, to produce offspring to use as weapons against the "infidels." I have to ask "Where is Abbas in all this"? Again, he is silent. President Bush recently welcomed Abbas to the White House ( Bush Praises Abbas in White House Visit ) and praised him as "a man devoted to peace." If Abbas is so concerned about obtaining a peace deal with Israel, surely these threats and the propaganda are hampering his efforts to move ahead in peace. So I would expect him to be more vocal against this evil.

The US has demanded that Abbas get tougher on terror organizations operating in the Palestinian areas, but what does Abbas say? He will not stop terror organizations, like Hamas, from participating in elections ( Abbas preaches democracy to the US — Jerusalem Newswire ). Regardless of the terror Hamas has unleashed against Israel. So what do I think? We continue to pressure Abbas. We let him know that he must do more. I wonder why US policy puts such limits on Israel to defend herself. We must be a true ally! We are adding to Israel's woes when we criticize her way of handling terror threats. We deny Israel the right to lands which many Americans believe belong to them ( US policy denies Jews their birthright — Jerusalem Newswire ). It sure is a dangerous move on our part.

Worldwide domination

If there is anyone with any doubts that militant Islam is not out to dominate and destroy innocent lives, they are surely living in a dream world! And it's time to snap back to reality. When we put limits on ourselves and our allies, we are fighting an uphill battle.

The talk of whether we are fighting "fair" has gone over into the absurd. War is never fair. It's a struggle between good and evil. And to overcome evil, we must confront it, holding nothing back! To the media, I say, enough is enough! Start wholeheartedly supporting our troops! Stop finding fault with their interrogation methods or their method of engaging the enemy. They are fighting to keep you free! It's your hide they protect!

Why do we not hear of incidents like these?!:

Monk, teenagers slain in Thailand

Al-Qaeda's Inroads into the Caribbean

The mainstream media has a great responsibility to tell the straight truth of what is going on, yet they don't. The American public then falls into a false sense of security, and instead of remaining vigilant, some of us lash out against President Bush saying that he is creating fear. No...the media isn't telling you the whole truth, that's what! It would be great to hear of such stories as those mentioned above, in the mainstream media. Because it is a real threat that we face. And we have to face it boldly!

So, let's cut out the nonsense, let our troops do their job, let Israel protect herself...no more urging Israel to give up land. When we do that, then we will have a firm grip on terror.

Kaelri said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Kaelri said...

(Sorry, that post was the same as this one, but I copied it over from notepad so the lining was screwed up. Fixed now.)

"Ward Chruchill for example. He hates America. Someone like him, rather than someone reasonable like you, created the upside down flag picture."

Yes, there are lunatics in this country on both sides of the aisle. My point was this: ignore them. Don't think for an instant that they can claim to represent every American left of center. They can't. 99% of us are far from the self-loathing "surrender lobby" you've made us out to be; those people just happen to be the ones who get CNN screen time. The rotated flag was probably a genuine mistake. Even if it wasn't, I'm willing to bet it was meant as the legitimate use of an upside-down flag: a distress signal. Don't assume the worst about us, it's not helping either side. Certainly you feel the same way about those who judge conservatives by the repesentation of, say, Michael Savage?

I'd like to respond to that article next.

"Where's the media on this story?! ...No mention was made about terrorists in Iraq setting someone on fire, the poor man burning ALIVE! I believe that is over the top as far as "atrocities" are concerned. No outcry over that?! I'm sure that falls under extreme torture!"

'Course it does. Why is there no media? Because we already know the terrorists are inhuman brutes. Not that the media doesn't love to report about things we're already quite familiar with, but really, what would be the point of running that story again? No minds to change. Nobody of this country's siding with terrorists of any bloody stripe.

It's very different when they're the actions of a soldier of the United States Army. We've come to expect our military, who really do more to represent us in that country than any diplomatic corps in the Green Zone, to be the better people, the ones who show not only the citizens but indeed their enemies a better way. And by and large, they do. Once again, this is something we can assume: our soldiers are righteous and honorable. It's not a story until one of them breaks the mold.

And they're breaking the mold in ways that are not just nitpicky. I don't care so much about the burning bodies - admittedly I don't know much about them, but as far as I'm concerned cremation is not an act of disrespect by default. On the other hand: Abu Ghraib. Guantanamo. Neither the media nor our government are doing nearly enough there, and I think everyone knows it on some level. Read through Bob Harris and Tom Tomorrow sometime; they both did a lot of research on both matters over the summer. It's... well, horrific.

Tony:

"It is why I believe we have a fundamnetal right and a moral obligation to the world to preserve it as a beacon of hope to the world, and as such I believe that if we have to liberate the peopel of Iraq form an oppressive dictator to get at the intelligence there, to fight the throatcutters that are coming in from other areas there, and to set up an example to the region that Islam and democracy can work there, and to send a message to the world that tyannical behavior and subsidizing killers of innocent people will simply no longer be tolerated, because it cannot be tolerated, so be it."

I have no problem with any of that, few of us do. All good things.

Have you seen the exchange between Jon Stewart and Christopher Hitchens?

http://www.comedycentral.com/sitewide/media_player/play.jhtml?itemId=17568

"There is reasonable dissent in this country about the way this war has been conducted that has nothing do do with people believing we should cut and run from the terrorists, or we should show weakness in the face of terrorism, or that we believe that we have in some way brought this upon ourselves. They believe that this war is being conducted without transparency, without credibility, and without competence... [Bush] refuses to answer questions from adults as though we were adults, and falls back upon platitudes, and phrases, and talking points, that does a disservice to the goals that he himself shares with the very people he has to convince."

Hitchens' reply: "You want me to believe that really you're secretly on his side, you just wish he was more persuasive?"

"I secretly need him to be on my side. He's too important and powerful a man not to be."

Also, the article I linked to in my previous post; scroll down to "Moral Justification #2."

Simply stated: the ends do not justify the means. There are more important things than victory, because victory on one level means absolute defeat on another. (Please read that article; even if you disagree with it completely, there isn't another piece of writing that explains our beliefs so clearly and insightfully than that.)

On another topic brought up here: it's been mentioned several times that this is something all of the soldiers believe in, that none of them have denounced. This is demonstrably false. I'm not sure where you got that idea, but I'll be happy to provide you with counterexamples, if you like. Doesn't mean those soldiers are any less dedicated, by the way; I hope you don't believe disagreement and loyalty cannot coexist.

"The talk of whether we are fighting "fair" has gone over into the absurd. War is never fair. It's a struggle between good and evil. And to overcome evil, we must confront it, holding nothing back! To the media, I say, enough is enough! Start wholeheartedly supporting our troops! Stop finding fault with their interrogation methods or their method of engaging the enemy. They are fighting to keep you free! It's your hide they protect!"

Can you fight fire with fire in a war between good and evil? Rather self-defeating, isn't it?

"And that is why I work tirelessly to change the hearts of people like you..."

I can't tell you how uplifting that was... I encounter the opposite far too often.

Anonymous said...

On the other hand: Abu Ghraib. Guantanamo. Neither the media nor our government are doing nearly enough there,

Lets just say you are correct, then your wonderful media needs to do more on this one:

30 October 2005: It was four weeks ago yesterday, Saturday, October 1, 2005, when America experienced an attempted terrorist attack outside of the packed Oklahoma University football stadium where 84,000 were in attendance. From the university president to the FBI to local and national politicians, the actions of Joel Henry HINRICHS III, the young man who detonated an explosive-filled backpack have been described as those of a despondent man with a troubled past, bent on killing only himself and completely unrelated to Islamic sponsored terrorism INSIDE the United States. Despite ample evidence to the contrary, the corporate media CONTINUES to ignore the influence of Islamic terrorism in America by failing to do their job – inform the American public the truth of this event.