Tuesday, November 15, 2005

Defeatist Chertoff

Chertoff: Not 'practical'to deport illegal aliens
In defending President Bush's so-called "guest worker" program for illegal aliens – which critics have dubbed an amnesty program – Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff says it's just not practical to deport the millions of foreigners in the country illegally.

"The cost of identifying all of those people and sending them back would be stupendous. It would be billions and billions of dollars," Chertoff told Sean Hannity on the Fox News Channel program "Hannity & Colmes" last night.

In the classic liberal "we can't win the 'war on drugs'" mentality our Homeland In-security chief has said "it's too hard." This is the same government that can regulate how much water your toilet flushes and how wide your deck is, but heaven forbid they enforce immigration laws.

As for the "billions and billions of dollars" nonsense, I think that he must be talking about how much we spend helping illegal aliens. Drivers licenses, ITINS, every government document printed in Spanish, education, migrant housing, court interpreters, bi-lingual government employees, etc.

Maybe we don't need an all out manhunt (although that would be nice) but instead we allow local law enforcement to actually enforce the law, including immigration law. How about we make it very difficult for illegal aliens to work? Then make it very difficult for them to get government benefits. No work, no benefits means that they go home.

NOTE: I say "very difficult" because "impossible" is not realistic. But by "very difficult" I mean damn near impossible.

This is a perfect example of a problem that could be properly maintained but our "leaders" let it get out of control and now they say the mess is just too big to clean up. I don't accept that excuse from my kids and I won't accept it from my government either!


Tony said...

Agreed, but did you miss the part where he said we will deport every one we can catch?

I think there is a bit of practicality involved. We have to aggresively pursue illegals and start with those who hire them knowingly. But the reality is, with forged documents so easily obtainable on the streets of LA, or legal ones available from the State of Oregon, it is difficult for an employer to know.

We will have an economic problem if, tomorrow, we were able to deport every illegal alien. Thousands of apartments empty, WalMart and Winco and other retailers taking a huge hit, gas stations, beer sales, lottery sales, grocery, etc. The longer term benefit (crime reduction, health care expense reduction, government services reductions) would be slow in coming.

I totally agree in an agressive policy to identify, prosecute, and deport illegals. But I also am ok with a system that allows some to come back temporarily to work legally.

And I was happy to hear Chertoff say that he told the envirowingnuts to effoff and he ordered the fence built in San Diego...if we can just extend that a few hundred miles to the east, that would be a good start.

I dunno, what do you all think? Am I off base here thinking there should be some kind of guest worker program, but that they should have to go back to Mexico to apply, and we should let, no mandate, that local law enforcement identify illegals and detain those who are here illegally, and Kevin Mannix's plan to say that you cannot obtain government services if you are not a legal resident of the state OR have not established residency regardless of where you are from, even form another state, should be implemented?

peod in Oregon said...

I agree with most of the arguments here but I can't see how we can accomplish these goals until we change the minds of the politicians and government employees that are welcoming these lawbreakers in and making them feel at home. Lets start with no documents, no assistance, no license, no schools, nothing.
We need to send back everyone that is picked up by police and send Mexico the bill-postage due. I'm sick of all this nicey, nice with Fox. He needs to take responsibility for these lawbreakers.
I personally don't care if deportation effects Walmart, Winco, etc. You could say the same thing about drug dealers or pimps, they spend money. For all the bleeding hearts that point out we are a nation of immigrants I'll point out that most of our ancestors came through customs, learned the language, took the citizenship test and appreciated the fact that they get to live in the greatest country on Earth.

Robin said...

what is the cost if we just continue to ignore the problem?

Tony said...

The cost of ignoring the problem is that we will lose this country to either terrorism in the short term, services overload in the mid-term, or cultural imperialism in the long term. That is not an option.

The only point of contention I have with Peod's comments is the last part about "not caring" what happens to walmart, winco, etc. But that is the economy this idiotoc policy has left us with. If you cut that off in one day, there would be catastrophic economic damage, like when a military base closes, only on a huge, nationwide basis. That is a national security issue, and it is pollyanna to simply dismiss it.

Whatever is done has to be done over the course of a few years, so I think that Chertoff's policy statement makes some sense.

Build the wall to cut off the supply. Deport all who are caught. Agreed, put in some sort of pressure on Vicente the sly Fox to clean up his act and his country. Put pressure on employers who employ illegals knowingly.

Tim Lewis said...

I think France is a perfect example of ignoring the problem.

Bob said...

You need to hammer the fact that the money we spend actually enforcing our borders is more that made up in savins on police, education, health care and other social expenditures.

Anonymous said...

A) go to smartbusinesspractices.com
You will see a system to verify every employee's immigration status is already in place! It is FREE and is done in seconds. Nationwide. NO employer has to hire an Illegal Alien.
B)SELF-DEPORTATION? Aug. 2004 A handful of ICE agents do interior enforcement in Temecula CA. in 2 weekends they catch over 400 Illegal Aliens. Next day, An apartment complex of 1,000 is empty, Schools report many kids not showing up. This is reported to every Spanish Radio/TV/Paper (including a blurb on the front page, in Spanish, in the Statesman-Journal) Ava Hutchinson of DHS (was Boss of ICE) flies to CA. and STOPS IT!
C)Economics? U. of Florida EVERY household in Florida is paying a NET of $1,800.00 per House, per Year for immigrant use of public services. 5 million non-English speaking students K-12 nationwide (U.S. D.O.E.) X $7,000 each per year is...$175 BILLION in 5 years.
D)Wal-Mart etc. Pay an American in 2005 wages! Yes Toilet paper might be $7.00 per 12 pack of double rolls, but it is a wash economically. Labor cost are only a small part of overhead. 28 years ago I made $10/HR. roofing.
E) Licenses/ID? Social Security Online Verification or S.S.O.L.V.
is used by almost EVERY state. Oregon has a Federal Grant APPROVED to pay use this system.
Cost? 1/4-3 pennies per license to see if S.S.# matches applicant name, NO match? NO ID or Voter Reg. card. HELLO?!
NO JOB/ID/Services? They leave, on THEIR own, at their expense.
Hey they learned a lot about why we have the BEST Nation on Earth while visiting. Go home and make some changes, Mexico IS the 12th WEALTHIEST Nation on the Planet. GDP=$1.006 TRILLION in 2004
Rick Hickey-V.P.-OFIR

Daniel said...

Excellent examples Rick! Your contributions are always appreciated.

Tony said...

Thanks Rick, thats why we love you and OFIR.

I would say, though, that many of the savings that you detail would not be realized for many years (government does not let go easy, people would be reassigned to play golf before they are laid off).

There arent millions of people who would go fill the janitorial, hotel, shelf stocker, dishwasher, etc jobs tomorrow no matter what it was paying. The economy would take a major hit for a number of years, probably 10-15 years to retool the economy. Yes, ultimately, the savings would be realized, but that is on the far side of a lot of pain. I am not advocating the status quo, I am simply saying lets be realisitc and not pie-in-the-sky. In the same way that it is problematic that we take in illegals faster than the country's ability to assimilate them, it would be equally problematic to de-assimilate them too quickly.

Case in point. Suppose you own that apartment complex that lost 1,000 tenants overnight. What will happen to you when you can't find tenants to replace them? The government is not going to come in the next day and say "hey, we no longer have to pay serivces for these folks, here is your refund check."

Suppose you own the corner market nearby where these people shop, and some might work for you. The next day, you are no longer selling tortillas and cerveza steel reserve and everything else. But hey, isn't it nice to know that 5 years later, your health care premiums might go down? And you might see some tax savings (yeah right...those dollars will go into other, shiny NEW government programs). Meanwhile, even if you DIDNT hire illegals, the overall labor market will get more competitive and your labor costs will go up.

We wont be firing cops, judges, ESL teachers, emergency room nurses, etc tomorrow. And if we did, then what?

So you see, you have good suggestions there, and I am not arguing for or against them, I am simply posing for the sake of discussion some of the problems we might face if we take aggressive action to enforce the laws in place.

Do you have any suggestions as to how these deleterious effects might be avoided or at least minimized?

Anonymous said...

Sure, According to the U.S. Census Bureau and the U.S. Dept. of Labor & The L.A. Times, there are actually twice as many persons unemployed or underemployed, as officially reported. Millions of people are accepting a job that pays much less than they are experienced or qualified to do. Or they have used up all their unemployment benefits. I read about 14 Million people are in this category. Oregon alone has over 150,000 collecting unemployment. We also have about 174,000 "Migrant" seasonal workers. The Consualte of Portland estimates about 600,000 Mexicans in Oregon. If the Farmers paid an American wage and those folks on unemployment had to do the job, BAMM! These people are now paying taxes, instead of collecting them and paying MORE taxes because they are paid more than the Migrant worker. AND paid above the table. Yes, Berries might cost 20% more. Farmers and Government wouldn't also be subsidizing their Housing (saving us all more), No more FREE College (saving us all more)and no more FREE meals provided by Marion/Polk food share, so ONLY people without a JOB, not Migrant "workers" use the food charities. They might actually have enough Food then. And we would all be safer. Shiny NEW Government program? Remember in Oregon the TAX KICKER REFUND? 1st year, it would be back for all of us law followers.

Tony said...

Anon, do you really think all these unemployed peopel are going to rush out to get joibs cleaning toilets and picking vegetables? Even at 10, 15 bucks an hour? You REALLY think that? Sure the construction jobs will fill back up with Americans, but the other jobs will still be unfilled for a LONG time.

And you have a misunderstanding of how government wasting...er...spending works. When the agency already has control of the money through its budget, it is not subject to the kicker. The agency will FIND something to spend it on. They will kill to get a bigger budget each year. Sure, eventually, the lack of "customers" will catch up to them, as I have said. But the short term, a decade or so, would be very hard on the economy.

Tim Lewis said...

I've cleaned toilets for a living. It's good money. You got a problem with that?

Terry said...

I've cleaned toilets for a living and it paid $1 above minimum wage. (Oh, and no benefits.) You call that good money?