Wednesday, May 03, 2006

Not a "fair" wage

There is one group of people that is possibly overpaid in this state: workers who make minimum wage.

I wish that people would work for what their labor is worth. For some that's $5.00/hour and for some that's $50.00/hour. But if your labor is worth five dollars and you are getting $7.50/hour then you are overpaid.

But government (and Oregon voters) have decided that your employer should have to pay you more than you are worth.

Now I know that some of you will insist that if we eliminated the minimum wage that "all workers will be paid ten cents an hour" but that argument doesn't hold up. I make more than minimum wage and no one had to tell my employer to pay me that, I earned it. If the minimum wage was repealed tomorrow would it affect your wages? Would you start making ten cents an hour?

Which brings us to the second group of people who could possibly be overpaid: Union workers. While they have negotiated a wage they do tie it to the minimum wage. If we have established that the minimum wage is not a market driven salary then union workers are overpaid as well.

What's my point? Nothing. Just an early morning rant.

20 comments:

Tim said...

Yes Daniel, but it's a rant with substance. As far as Unions...to me they are nothing more than socialist dictorships on parade. Everyone getting the same pay regardless of worth or amount of work performed. The guy sitting on his ass all day gets paid the same as the guy who busts his butt all day.

Union officials livin' large on the backs of their memebers. Not to mention raises tied to time on the job not merit, now that's Utopia.

Anonymous said...

The plan is to bring job training into the schools where students can work as Interns (uncompensated) until they build their skill level to where they are worth the minimum wage.

There won't be any need for an Entry Level Wage!

But there will be much more need for more bilingual schools and teachers and administrators.

dchamil said...

Entry-level workers get more than money. They establish a reputation for showing up on time, doing the job properly, avoiding stealing from the employer, and so on. They may live at home with mom and be without the expense of being married, which reduces financial need.

Erik said...

If the minimum wage laws were repealed today, unemployment rates would soon drop to zero. Let's face it folks, some people are more valuable in the workplace than others, hence the VERY IMPORTANT nature of education. Even a simple skill learned early, as most know, makes you much more valuable. Liberals, listen up, minimum wage laws discriminate against the poor and minorities, primarily, by making employment harder to find, as there are no positions that will pay them their entry level labor worth.

CapitalistPig said...

Minimum Wage hurts the poor it's intended to protect. Realisticly few, non-government and non-union employees are going to be overpaid. If your labor is worth $5.00 and you get paid 7.50, you're not going to have a job.

Anonymous said...

Protest the hiring of illegals.
BOYCOTT TYSON FOODS.
Remember, Keep It Simple
One Company, One Product.


I have been passing my idea around to friends this week. I tell them, let’s boycott Tyson Foods to protest the hiring of illegal aliens. Every time I mention it someone chimes in with something they think is helpful. But adding more companies is not helpful. It muddies the plan and makes it impossible to execute.

Remember Keep It Simple!!! We must target a single company and a single product and make it clear this is a protest against hiring illegal aliens.

A few years ago I got an email about boycotting Exxon. Within a month I got all sorts of derivatives of the same idea. The whole concept became muddled and everyone was adding their particular 2 cents. And in the end nothing happened.

1) Target a single company and a single product. Tyson Chicken. This makes it easy to replace that product with something else. Easy to understand and easy to execute. Everyone you tell, be sure to stress, we must remain targeted and keep it simple if it is to be effective. Just Tyson Chicken.

It has nothing to do with vegetarianism, wicca, world peace, or any of the other wacky ideas that got added to the Exxon boycott of prior years. This is about picking one company, and punishing them for hiring illegals.

2) People often say "It won’t have an effect because the other companies hire illegals too."

True, other companies hire illegals. There will be all sorts of articles written about how there is no way we can be effective. Do not believe it. The fact that Perdue also hires illegals is unfortunate. But if we try to get everyone to stop buying all products related to the hiring of illegals, nothing will happen.

Forget Perdue and Wal-Mart, target one company, one product, do not stray from this simple plan. Bring Tyson to its knees.

WE CAN DESTROY TYSON CHICKEN. BRING THEM TO THEIR KNEES. MAKE THE MONEY CULT IN CONGRESS AND ON WALLSTREET HEAR US!

Tyson has bitten the hand that feeds it. DOWN WITH TYSON.

Copy this and email it to a friend.

Ronald said...

Too bad Annon. We just bought 80 lbs of Tyson Chicken for our school district.

As for the "rant" on Unions. Isn't it more about the fact that Daniel Miglavs would never be able to get a union job. As it is he is on just about every shit list from unions to OJIN.

gullyborg said...

I don't actually work right now, so my labor is worth nothing. But rather than receiving nothing, I should be receiving minimum wage for the many hours each day that I do nothing.

Yes, it sounds ridiculous. But is it substantively any different from saying "even though my labor is worth only a buck an hour, you should have to pay me seven"?

I invented the mullet said...

Gullyborg,
I hear ya', man! It's hard work doing nothing!

(I'd strike if I were you!)

Kate said...

Amen.

Mike Mayhem said...

Daniel you talk a big talk for someone who's afraid of the competition from brown skinned folks with out of date visas.

This made me laugh... the naive arrogance is astonishing, you never fail to entertain. Let's abolish all labor laws, that way the employer (who's goal is to make as much profit as possible) can decide how many hours you need to work and what your labor is worth.

I do recall plantation owners saying black people's labor was worth nothing a while back, that seemed to work out well.

Erik said...

I don't think that Daniel is afraid of competition from "brown skinned" people? with out of date visas? Neither am I for that matter. I'm assuming you are referring to people from Mexico that are in this country illegally? It's funny though, to even think that someone might suggest that criminals are a job competition to fear, being that, as we all know, it is illegal for someone to work in this country if you are here illegally. All that aside, if one wants to look at two different examples, let's look at the private sector vs. the government sector. As Mike stated earlier, the employer has a goal of maximizing profits. Personally, I have only witnessed this possibility in the private sector. In my 14 years of working, I've worked for eight different employers, all private sector jobs. When I started out working in 1992 (age 14), I made minimum wage, which at the time was $4.25 in Washington. That's not counting the two summers prior, in which I picked raspberries in the fields in Puyallup, Washington. (Another job Americans won't do?) Anyway, from there on out I increased my wage, but at a pace that put the minimum wage rate increase to shame, even in Washington, where the minimum wage increases above and beyond the federal rate every year due to an initiative that passed years ago. So, how did I achieve this amazing feat? By making myself more valuable. If people have a problem with being worthless, and subsequently being treated like they are worthless, then fix it. In today's age of information everywhere and equal rights, there are no excuses. Stop whining!

Mike Mayhem said...

hmm... thanks for the autobiography??? Your right, who would consider these illegal folks a competition.

Let's ask Daniel:
"...I would like for them [unfortunate Americans] to be able to do this work without competition from an illegal workforce."

If you guys understood my stance, I stand strong against raising the minimum wage, etc, however that doesn't mean I'm arrogant in my views of wage.

I was taught to work for the job you want not for the one you have, I understand your stance.. but your view on minimum wage is naive. There needs to be regulations in a time when corporations are, well, lawless. There needs to be a standard in wage, or else who's going to prevent slave labor.

Of course there'll be lazy people, there are lazy people earning 200 bucks a day with college degrees, it's arrogant and immature to generalize this to the lower class... but I guess that's how you people base your stance on most political issues. Go you.

Daniel and everyone else who shares this view, this is a great idea for a utopian world. Go ahead and take the last word, I'm done.

Hindu said...

Obviously union workers are overpaid, and overemployed. They form unions to achieve that.

The min wage argument has legs on another of your favorite subjects: Illegal immigration.

A point I've tried to make many times is that states like Washington and Oregon need to look in the mirror in terms of attracting the masses flowing through the unprotected southern border.

The 2 highest min wages in the country, along with loads of social freebies, is not lost on destitute Mexicans.

el razonador said...

Hindu -- How do you explain the fact that the states recently drawing the largest flows of foreign-born workers (authorized and unauthorized) are also right-to-work states (Georgia, North Carolina, Utah, Nevada...)? The notion that immigrants are drawn to high-benefit states and that they use public services more than the native-born has been shown to be a myth by all credible research conducted (see, for example, Bean and Stevens. 2003. America's Newcomers. Russell Sage Foundation).

Perhaps you all should turn off Lars Larson and crack open some books, maybe even read something that brings a rational and logical challenge to your cookie-cutter arguments. Cite your sources. It's sure to make the discussions here more engaging than what currently passes for "argument" around here.

Hindu said...

el razonador,

If you think Mexicans aren't drawn to states with high min wages, you are nuts.

Enough said.

el razonador said...

Not enough, Hindu. Empirically, it couldn't be much more clear cut.

Of the ten states with the highest rates of foreign-born Hispanic growth between the last two decennial censuses, in order of growth rate -- North Carolina, Tennessee, Arkansas, Alabama, Minnesota, South Carolina, Nebraska, Georgia, Utah, and Kentucky -- only one, Minnesota, pays above the federal minimum wage.

Stop making stuff up.

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0930886.html

http://www.migrationinformation.org/feature/display.cfm?ID=95

Hindu said...

If you go from 1 to 4 that's a pretty big growth rate. Pct growth shows nothing.

So what's your theory? Mexicans are attracted to states with low min wages?

I know lots of Mexicans who tell me the ridiculous WA min wage and health freebies are well known throughout Western Mexico.

Mike Mayhem said...

Stop changing your arguments, I thought you hated illegals because they don't work for minimum wage thus undercutting American laborers. If that's true, the argument that they're attracted to states with high minimum wages become moot.

Erik said...

Mike,

I'm glad you liked my post so much. I think that the minimum wage should be abolished, just like taxes and regulations. The only laws on the books should involve national security and injury towards one's self or property by another.