Saturday, April 08, 2006

Surrender before they stop cleaing our hotels

Pre-emptive Surrender of the Borders
You can tell that the tide is turning in the debate over illegal immigration, because the advocates of open borders and amnesty are no longer arguing about what should be done. Now their argument has degenerated into a description of what can’t be done. From a dozen mouths this week we have heard: “we just can’t deport 11 million immigration criminals –even if we wanted to,” and of course the amnesty proponents don’t want to.

The follow-up question I never hear asked is: “If we can’t deport 11 million, then how many can we deport; and can we get started on that number?” The implicit answer always seems to be “we cannot deport any number”.

With his usual clever wit Mac Johson makes a great case. The only thing he leaves out, something most people leave out, is that if we take away the carrot, nay the carrot cake that we offer to illegal aliens in the form of health care, food, housing, jobs, education we may not even need enforcement.

It's the same priciple as "don't leave your laptop in your car" so that the thief won't break in. If they can't get their goodies that our public officials are currently tripping over themselves to see how much and how fast they can get them stuff (all in Spanish) then they won't break in to our country!

22 comments:

Anonymous said...

Another dumb article by daniel. Woot!

Anonymous said...

How do I become certified as an ICE approved Bounty Hunter?

I'll start with that bastard with the blaring Musica in the grocery store parking lot.

Doors open, windows down in his beater Ford Tempo with the volume on high.

Anonymous said...

Baah hahahaa

Michael T. said...

The mantra you hear over and over is you can't deport 11 million illegal aliens. How would they know they never tried, besides at 1.2 million a year and rising, 11 million is a wrong number. When INS was still INS back int the 60's and 70's, there was expeditious removal praqcticed; in fact INS paid a $25 bounty for each illegal entry arrest. Illegal aliens feared anything green, many self deported. Guess the point is back then we enforced immigration laws. It all started to change after Sen. Edward Kennedy's "Immigration reform act of 1965" which opened the flood gates from Mexico and other Latin American countries, as well as subsequent amnesty's and immigration remorms. Funny how history repeats itself. If we had the will to enforce existing laws, especially against employers, bring back expedited removal and did so consistantly, you would see self deportation again.

Anonymous said...

I bet if you try to deport that 11.2 million, they along with the their allies will deport you nativists instead.

Texas said...

http:\\media.putfile.com/Aztlan

Texas said...

"To the people of Texas and all Americans in the world --
Fellow Citizens and Compatriots

I am besieged by a thousand or more of the Mexicans under Santa Anna - I have sustained a continual bombardment & cannonade for 24 hours & have not lost a man - The enemy has demanded a surrender at discretion, otherwise, the garrison are to be put to the sword, if this fort is taken - I have answered the demand with a cannon shot, & our flag still waves proudly from the walls - I shall never surrender or retreat. Then, I call on you in the name of Liberty, of patriotism & everything dear to the American Character, to come to our aid, with all dispatch -- The enemy is receiving reinforcements daily & will no doubt increase to three or four thousand in four or five days. If this call is neglected, I am determined to sustain myself as long as possible & die like a soldier who never forgets what is due his own honor & that of his country -

Victory or Death.

William Barret Travis"

Daniel said...

"I bet if you try to deport that 11.2 million, they along with the their allies will deport you nativists instead."

That's just a dumb thing to say. Really. That's stupid. Maybe when you become an adult you will understand.

Rob said...

I bet if you try to deport that 11.2 million, they along with the their allies will deport you nativists instead.

That's just a dumb thing to say. Really...

Daniel, It might be "dumb thing to say", but it does smack of some truth...really.

Anonymous said...

I agree with Rob.
they calculated how much it would cost to find and deport every undocumented worker, and its to costy. More than the war in iraq has cost.

el razonador said...

Daniel -- You assume that because these people are here illegally, they should be deported, but no one ever discusses the notion that our immigration laws and quotas are completely out of sorts with the realities of the global economy. Without question, there is an incredible demand for low skilled labor for Mexico that cannot be filled from the native work-force. You and others often mock this notion, but statistically, it is indisputable. Before felonizing 11 million workers, perhaps there should be a discussion over whether the economy can get along without them. Not whether we SHOULD in your idealistic vision of the world (or Bruce's less Hispanic vision), but whether we actually CAN.

You often counter with: "Capitalism is innovative, and develops creative ways to fill labor shortages" or something like that. This is a ridiculous notion, it has never happened, historically, far as I have read. If you have an example, please share. Not every job can be mechanized. Fear of an ethnic voting backlash is only part of the reason Senesenbrenner's bill caused such a stir. The other reason: felonizing illegals and those who hire them would have severe, negative effects on the economy (if the law could even be enforced). Prices would skyrocket: you can blame the capitalists for that one.

Our leaders would better serve us in the long term if they would raise the level of debate to addressing the issues of global inequality that drive migration from less developed nations to more developed ones, rather than pandering to this or that cause.

Finally, the talk is always over Mexicans. 55% of the illegals are from Mexico. The rest are from elsewhere in the world. Building a wall across the border does nothing to address vias overstayers and peopole arriving in other ways.

el razonador said...

Michael T -- Mexicans self-deported in the 60s and 70s. This is news to me. What book did you read about this in? The last time Mexicans self-deported on any major scale was between 1930-1934, during the depression, an immoral removal (that included many citizens and legal residents) that the government is considering apologizing for.

Of course, self-deportation has always happened, but not because of fear of deportation. In the 60s and 70s, when it was much easier to enter the country illegally, illegal migration flows were more circular. Now they are more permanent because of fear of detection at the border, not forced deportation once here.

controlling for population growth, illegal immigration from Mexico has not increased in 20 years, as Douglas Massey has shown in a number of books.

The 1965 Immigration Act also opened the "floodgates" from Asia, but you don't seem too concerned about that.

Daniel said...

El razondor, the easiest example would be the California tomato farmers. They had labor issues and so they mechanized.

Now imagine the jobs that are created to build, repair, service and improve on those machines.

As for jobs that can't be mechanized, I think that relaxed child labor laws, a reduction in the minimum wage and less regulation would alleviate most problems.

I would also ask if there is any industry that relies exclusively on illegal labor. No industry claims that 100% of their workforce is illegal so obviously they can find legal labor. They may have to work a little harder to attract some more workers but that is the market.

Industries that used slave labor had to adapt or they went away.

And it is a net economic loss to import an uneducated workforce. The costs to society far outweigh any perceived savings on labor.

But for me, and many others, this isn't a purely economic issue, it is also a cultural one. It is very disturbing to see large groups of people in this country whose allegiance belongs to Mexico rather than America.

As for "global inequality," there was a survey done where a vast majority of Mexicans said they would migrate here if they could, are we supposed to absorb any amount of immigrants? (legal or illegal)

Anonymous said...

Its an invasion, look at the threads here in this blog that are pro immigration. Almost all of them have a distain for our laws, a "we're coming whether you 'Americans' like it or not." attitude. The naked truth has been revealed.

The compromise bill in the U.S. Senate is amnesty, pure and simple.
It is equivelent to the Kansas-Nebraska Act of 1854, which split the Country, eliminated the Whig Party, and gave birth to the Republican Party; it opened the territories to slavery, the senate bill opens illegal aliens across the face of America.

What flag will the protesters carry? Mexican, without doubt. The elite open borders, Davos groups know they are on the run. Middle America is roaring. Oregon United States Senator Gordon Smith better know his political career is on the line if he votes for this stinking bilge of a bill.

Liberty44 said...

Did anyone read an article in the Statesman-Journal, which I cannot find online, that is by Michael Reagan? It is very informative and we could end all this illegal immigration crap if we would just follow Mexico's lead on illegal immigration. He states that the Mexican laws on immigration are extremely strict. Article 33: Foreigners may not in any way participate in the political affairs of the country. Equal employment rights are denied to the immigrants, even legal ones. Also according to Article 33 "the Federal Executive shall have the exclusive power to compel any foreignerwhose remaining he may deem inexpedient to abandon the national territory immediately and without the necessity of previous legal action.

I thought the other articles were also very pertinent. So just how do they think they can come into our country and dictate what we are required to do for them?

Anonymous said...

The protests are on again. How many illegals are in the mob? What half or more? What more proof do we need, this is a full scale invasion. Illegal aliens are so bold that they threaten economic violence. The media have shown their true open border selves, especially FOX. You thought FOX would be traditional, but Fox has more in common with Vicentes Fox than Middle America. So hang tough and denounce this illegal storming of the gates. Our National Destiny is at stake in the next two weeks.

We have no bill, so where is the law enforcement? Current law needs to be enforced, but the elite open borders crowd has betrayed the Nation called America.
Yes, Sen. Gordon Smith needs to be heckled and protested so he knows Amnesty means his political death.

Anonymous said...

Gordon Smith said he did not support amnesty, but he broke his promise and supports the amnesty bill in the Senate. Did he break his promise or lie to the people of Oregon and never meant what he said? Does Mr. Smith's word mean nothing? Yes, at this point, Gordon Smith, you can say is a liar.

Will he get smart and repudiate his support for the compromise bill which is clearly and unmistakenly AMNESTY. only if he can detach from the open borders elite and the illegal mob on the street.

Anonymous said...

Boy, when you see the Davos elite and the illegal mob on the street working together you know something stinks real bad. The majority of American CITIZENS want enforcement which is what the house bill does. We can not reward illegal aliens for border jumping into our Country. Amnesty will only encourage the flood we have now. Control of the border is a basic definition of Nationhood. Open border people want to junk that definition.

Calhoun said...

One of the talking points you hear right now is "it would cost $200 billion to deport them".

Can someone check my math? $200 billion divided by let's say 10 million immigration criminals = $20,000 apiece.

I didn't realize a bus ticket to Mexico costs $20,000!

Anonymous said...

Woot!

Daniel is teh cooolest !!!1!!!!!!! one!!eleven

He walsk around the halls of PCC wearing those boots with the white laces...

I want to be just like him...

/End sarcastic comment
//Will put his blog on fark so they can make fun of him

Bobbi said...

Anonymous woot:

You're clogging up a site dedicated to topics of importance to citizens of the United States of America - I'm sure there is a site more suited to your juvenile interests elsewhere on the web - look for it.

el razonador said...

Daniel - I often wonder where you get your history. Based on my reading of history, mechanization is some direct result of labor issues. The southern plantation didn't mechanize because slavery was abolished. Slavery was quickly replaced by a system of debt peonage governed by Jim Crow Racism that lasted up until the Civil Rights Era. The South didn't mechanize because of labor issues, they mechanized because the Southern plantation economy couldn't compete with agricultural production in the more industrialized north.

"As for jobs that can't be mechanized, I think that relaxed child labor laws, a reduction in the minimum wage and less regulation would alleviate most problems."

Are you kidding me? How? Please tell me how in the hell this would alleviate most problems.



"I would also ask if there is any industry that relies exclusively on illegal labor. No industry claims that 100% of their workforce is illegal so obviously they can find legal labor. They may have to work a little harder to attract some more workers but that is the market."

Do you know what an industry is? It's different than an occupation. Most industries are stratified: there are owners, various levels of managers, supervisors etc. These are not illegals. But there are laborers within each industry, and often these are illegals.


"Industries that used slave labor had to adapt or they went away." No, they didn't.

"And it is a net economic loss to import an uneducated workforce. The costs to society far outweigh any perceived savings on labor."

Really? Daniel, you know this? Because if so, then just about any University across the country has a named professorship for you, because this just happens to be the million dollar question in economics and other social sciences.


"But for me, and many others, this isn't a purely economic issue, it is also a cultural one. It is very disturbing to see large groups of people in this country whose allegiance belongs to Mexico rather than America."

How is this any different from the European peasants arriving at the turn of the last century? Your nativist rhetoric sound identical to historical accounts of that period, when people were questioning the allegiances of the Greeks, the Itailians and other "swarthy" races. The immigrant generation is always somewhere in-between in terms of identity. By the third, little of the country of origin remains.

"As for "global inequality," there was a survey done where a vast majority of Mexicans said they would migrate here if they could, are we supposed to absorb any amount of immigrants? (legal or illegal)".

No. And actually, a very small percentage of the world's population ever migrates. But we should push our leaders to address the structural issues that fuel migration, rather than just debate the desirability of immigration itself. The American public could stand a general upgrading in the level of its governmental discourse. Studies have found that Americans are by far the informed when it comes to politics and public affairs in their own nation, much less the world. Americans are utterly stupid when it comes to the political proces and such things like world affairs and global geography. We should hold our politicians and media to a higher standard, and the tenor of the immigration debate should be raised as well. Controlled for population growth, the rate of undocumented migration has not changed in 20 years, yet people think that all of a sudden our borders are under siege. This due to sensational accounts by our media and vote greedy politicians. Ask people how many economic crises Mexico has weahtered in the past 20 years, what party their president is from, when they last had a civil war, etc. and Americans are ignorant. Yet, they have all the answers when it comes to immigration.

Daniel, I have a strong sense that you're making some of this stuff up to suit your argument, sort of like you're running for office or something.