Friday, June 30, 2006

Judged by the color of their skin rather than the content of their character

Groups outline plans to get Latinos registered to vote
"We want to keep building momentum for comprehensive immigration reform that provides a pathway to citizenship for the 12 million undocumented immigrants currently in the country," said Aeryca Steinbauer, the coordinator of CAUSA, an immigrant-rights group in Woodburn. "Fundamentally, it's about what kind of nation we want the United States to be," she said. "I don't think we want a nation of second-class citizens.

Don't worry, I don't want anyone to be a "second-class citizen" either. I want you to be a first-class citizen... back in Mexico if that's where you belong.

"Right now, our immigration system excludes millions of people from equal participation in the electoral process and equal rights."

Right now our OLCC exludes millions of people from equal consumption of liquor. How unfair.

I think it's pretty shameful to think that all Hispanics are going to vote for your candidates or amnesty. My wife thinks that illegal alien rapists (I know, I could have just said "illegal alien" and we can pretty much assume rapist) should have their penises cut off before being deported. Rest assured, that's one Hispanic who will not be voting with the CAUSA bloc.

42 comments:

BEAR said...

hey, all you illegals out there, vote as often as you like. Oregon is becoming more isolated, and more of a laughing-stock every election cycle. The State of Washington is purging its voter rolls every month, now that it knows how big a target they are for election fraud from the left. Oregon lefties will continue to subvert the electoral process, displaying to the WHOLE country what ignorant, pandering, anti-American fools they are. Tomorrow, sleepy ted will have to EAT the new law that starts the process of refusing to waste good money on criminal aliens.....priceless!

BEAR said...

heads up to Mr. Daniel only. Everyone (on the honor system) else ignore this. Please audit saxton's comments re fire and rehire of state employees to fix PERS. I believe I heard him twice on Lars talk on this topic. Today, he denied it to Tom Parker on KPAM, in response to teacher's union accusation.

Daniel said...

Interesting...

BEAR said...

I thought so.

Anonymous said...

Latinos are people who speak Spanish and live (or hail from) South of the US Border with Mexico.

So what makes them so special and why?

Anonymous said...

I know this is kind of off topic, but I just heard that interview with Lars and the commerce secretary I think it was. My god....Lars wiped the floor with that guy!!

As I was listening to him I came up with a term that describes him and his ilk....you know people like him and George Bush, John McCain, etc. I will start calling those sorts "Amnesty Zombies" because they seem so transfixed on screwing average americans with this "comprehensive approach" nonsense.

Kaelri said...

"(I know, I could have just said 'illegal alien' and we can pretty much assume rapist)"

If you say it enough it must be true?

Daniel said...

No, if the Mexican conul says it and you look at the DOC custody list then it must be true.

Scottiebill said...

Bear, You are right on about the Oregon lefties. And they are being led by that bastion of Oregon-liberal thinking, Guillermo Bradbury.

And, Daniel, kaelri is still in denial about the illegal aliens and their criminal ways as evidenced by his posting at 0715.

Off the subject a bit: My wife and my son and I were in Powells on Burnside a couple of hours ago. Near the front entrance at 10th and Burnside, they have a good sized rack with a lot of politically directed books. I did not see one that even leaned slightly to the right. They all were liberal crap by such notable people as Al Franken, Michael Moore, and their ilk, But not one of Michael Savage's books. All left wing garbage and propaganda. One would think that the place is operated by the New York Times.

Kaelri said...

"kaelri is still in denial about the illegal aliens and their criminal ways as evidenced by his posting at 0715."

Just checking. It's the same species of tactic that Daniel occasionally drafts - I cite the "puppy raper" moniker.

Daniel said...

RE: Powell's books, you should see the "recommended reading" tags that employees put around.

RE: Kaelri, are you conceding that a huge number of illegal aliens are rapists?

BEAR said...

kaelri, it's all about who you hang with. Liberals apologize for, and feel sorry for, and enable criminals of all types, then squeal like pigs when punishment is at hand.....sheesh.

Kaelri said...

"RE: Kaelri, are you conceding that a huge number of illegal aliens are rapists?"

No. I'm not, at present, denying it, as I'm not exactly sure when I'll find the time to read through 909 names from an DOC registry. Speaking from independent logic, though, I remind you that the people being detained are more likely to be criminals (as in committing crimes beyond the state of being here - there is, in fact, a pragmatic difference) than illegal immigrants as a whole. I thus find it very likely that the number of rapists listed in that RTF is disproportional.

The Mexican consul was not much more helpful, as the man clearly had no idea what he was being asked about.

"kaelri, it's all about who you hang with. Liberals apologize for, and feel sorry for, and enable criminals of all types, then squeal like pigs when punishment is at hand.....sheesh."

It's debatable whether I enable crime simply via my beliefs and positions. However, to my knowledge, I have not apologized for criminal of any type, and I only feel sorry for them insofar as they were born with a combination of human nature and circumstance that has compelled them to screw themselves over.

But I concede that I don't know whether I would squeal like a pig when faced with punishment for my crimes. Since I don't intend to commit any, I doubt we'll ever find out. Sorry to disappoint.

Daniel said...

I only feel sorry for them insofar as they were born with a combination of human nature and circumstance that has compelled them to screw themselves over.

Where does personal responsibility fit into all that? You aren't "born" driving a stolen car, you choose to steal it.

Kaelri said...

Of course it's their fault that they turned to crime. But on another level, it's not their fault that it's their fault. That's all I'm saying. I believe in criminal justice but I regreat that it's necessary.

Kaelri said...

*regret. Curses.

MAX Redline said...

"*regret. Curses."

LOL! Glad to see I'm not the only one here with fingers that don't always work right!

I have to say, Kaelri, that I'm happy to overlook those issues.

Unlike some of the others here, you actually contribute to a civil discussion.

While I may not agree with all of your thoughts, you at least bring thought, rather than slash-and-dash tactics.

Personally, I appreciate your continued input here.

I still think that illegal aliens are a huge problem.

So we disagree, it seems.

But your reasoned discussion, without resort to invective, and without decrying the owner of the site, speaks volumes.

Kaelri said...

Your sentiments are appreciated. They mean that I'm fulfilling my purpose here.

I don't, though, think the problem isn't huge. Though I can see how you might think otherwise. First I think there are much bigger problems. Second, I think Daniel and his comrades have chosen one of the less productive courses to attack it.

I criticize some of my liberal allies in the same way, on a paralle issue: capital punishment. We oppose it, of course, and the most obvious (and thus most common) attack on the death penalty has been the fear that an innocent person will be legally executed. (This has, actually, already happened.) But to truly support its downfall, one has to have an understanding of why it is absolutely wrong, even for the most savage, remorseless, uncontrollable demon of a human being. (Jeanne d'Arc wrote eloquently on the matter.)

In the same way, I don't think you're going to break free of the racism and nativism stranglehold of perception on your cause until you can explain, to a sufficient number of moderates and liberals, why every single illegal alien must be deported, even the most harmless and well-intentioned. Trumpeting the fear of terrorists and drugs and murderers and such is important, but you also have to show that this is fundamentally a matter of principle. Sensationalist generalizations pass the point of believability and backfire. Badly. You get people's attention up to a point, and then they stop trusting you, and they stop trusting your sources.

Daniel loves to post a picture of this guy every time he's going at the "homosexual agenda," but the fact that it's not even close to a representation of 95% of them is something that I think he recognizes. My point is this: don't be that poster boy for the anti-alien movement. Your cause is just. It's worth fighting for. Don't lose control of your momentum and scrub your own mission.

Bobkatt said...

Aeryca Steinbauer says: "Fundamentally, it's about what kind of nation we want the United States to be,"

Damn straight. That's what I'm talkin' about!
I don't want a nation where you just obey the laws that you like and ignore the rest.
I don't want a nation where those who's job it is to enforce those laws look the other way.
I don't want a nation where we can't afford to educate and take care of our own people.
I don't want a nation where the use and abuse of the working man is encouraged.
If I did I'd move to Mexico!

"Right now, our immigration system excludes millions of people from equal participation in the electoral process and equal rights."

That is the problem. We keep phrasing this as an immigration problem. Saying that our immigration system is broken is correct, but it's the people in charge that need fixed, not the system. It's has nothing to do with immigration, it has to do with 20 million trespassers. These people are not immigrants, they are criminals. That's why the whole "we are a nation of immigrants" argument is facitious. An invasion is not an immigration problem.

Kaelri said: Of course it's their fault that they turned to crime. But on another level, it's not their fault that it's their fault.
It's logic like this that drives me crazy. Please explain how it's their fault and not their fault at the same time.

Kaelri said...

"It's logic like this that drives me crazy. Please explain how it's their fault and not their fault at the same time."

Heh... that takes me to arguing on a philosophical and theological level. To understand it, one must accept that for every choice, there is a cause, and that people are ultimately not responsible for those causes. We don't get to pick our inherent human nature, nor the culture and conditions in which we are born, but those two things form a system and the input that results in the output of thought and action. It's why free will technically can't exist. "We are all subject to the fates. But we must act as if we are not, or die of despair."

But that's quite a ways beyond the purview of this blog.

Bobkatt said...

Kaelri-Gosh darn, I ain't too educated like you, but it seems to me that what you're sayin' is that since for every choice there is a cause and that people aren't responsible for the causes, ergo, people aren't responsible for their choices. I on the other hand believe that is about all we are responsible for are our choices. Your choices to a situation define your character. Yes, character matters.
We don't get to pick our human nature Well no, we all have the same human nature. That would be the nature of humans. Welcome to the club. We do however choose how we display that nature.
As far as free will technically can't exist, I feel sorry for you that you would limit yourself to that existance. Man will always have free will, it's just that sometimes he doesn't like the choices.
Finally, if explaining your position is beyond the purview of this blog, perhaps you don't know how to explain it or maybe you are just wasting your time with us mental midgets.

MAX Redline said...

kaelri,

In the same way, I don't think you're going to break free of the racism and nativism stranglehold of perception

Therein lies much of the problem: perception - though in many cases it is wilful misperception and mislabeling generated by the left.

It doesn't matter how often one states that one is pro-immigration but anti-illegal; they still paint you as a racist, bigot, nativist, or whatever invective happens to be handy.

I happen to believe that the presence of at least 12 million illegal aliens in the USA is a huge problem. I happen to disbelieve that there is such a thing as a harmless illegal alien.

First, they willingly and knowingly broke our law, which is why the correct term is "illegal".

To me, that alone is important.

Moreover, the argument that some - or many - may be "harmless and well intentioned" is a sham.

I'm aware of the fact that in many cases, slaves were harmless and well-intentioned. But I don't support slavery either.

The fact of the matter is that permitting a huge underclass to be in our country may be a great deal for Tyson. It may be a great deal for the cherry growers. It may be a great deal for contractors.

But it's a bad deal for our country.

Bobkatt summed it up rather nicely:

Damn straight. That's what I'm talkin' about!
I don't want a nation where you just obey the laws that you like and ignore the rest.
I don't want a nation where those who's job it is to enforce those laws look the other way.
I don't want a nation where we can't afford to educate and take care of our own people.
I don't want a nation where the use and abuse of the working man is encouraged.
If I did I'd move to Mexico!

BEAR said...

Hey, kaelri, thanx for the entertainment. As long as you keep writing, sophistry and buffoonery will survive. Max, your definition of "reasoned discussion" needs some work. Looks like you're headed toward the "if only we smiled more, the terrorists would stop torturing anf murdering" nonsense. Do I detect romance 'twixt you and the kidiot?

Kaelri said...

- "Kaelri-Gosh darn, I ain't too educated like you..."

You're looking at three years of American public high school education. And some reading here and there. I doubt very much that we are on unequal footing.

- "...if explaining your position is beyond the purview of this blog, perhaps you don't know how to explain it or maybe you are just wasting your time with us mental midgets."

I refuse to believe that anyone is truly incapable of understanding. I thus offer this challenge: name a single choice, the causes of which cannot be identified.

I do not, by the way, let that philosophy have any impact on my thoughts and actions. I stuck that quote at the end of my last post for a reason.

- "It doesn't matter how often one states that one is pro-immigration but anti-illegal; they still paint you as a racist, bigot, nativist, or whatever invective happens to be handy."

Well of course they'll try. Just as al Qaeda tries to portray U.S. soldiers as murderers and torturers. And in that particular example, we have learned the hard way that the worst possible thing to do is prove the accusations. It is possible to deviate from the accusations against you, by your words and choices, enough to make your accusers look stupid and belligerent, i.e. the "cut and run" talking point against Democrats and cries of "treason" against the New York Times.

"Moreover, the argument that some - or many - may be "harmless and well intentioned" is a sham."

A guy who works hard in this country "doing the jobs some Americans prefer not to do" and goes back to his own to make sure his family has food and water for the next week is well-intentioned. Chances are that he is also harmless. Border-hopping is not an offensive crime. It is a crime, and the law should be enforced, but let's just make sure we understand why.

"I'm aware of the fact that in many cases, slaves were harmless and well-intentioned. But I don't support slavery either."

Neither do I, but with slavery, it was the masters who were the enemy, and the freed slaves were welcomed into the country.

Bruce said...

Daniel...Would we, as legal American citizens, have the right to find out where these sign-up stations are (for hispanics to register to vote) and stand nearby and monitor or possibly ask these hispanics coming to sign up if they are legal to be in this country to register. I know it's against the law to be near polling places on election day and ask people this, but this is not election day. These are people who are outright breaking the law by registering illegal people to vote...that is against the law. Would it be possible to call for a citizen arrest if one could prove that some of these people knowingly signed up an illegal alien to vote?

MAX Redline said...

your definition of "reasoned discussion" needs some work. Looks like you're headed toward the "if only we smiled more, the terrorists would stop torturing anf murdering" nonsense. Do I detect romance 'twixt you and the kidiot?

LOL! 'Fraid not, Bear. Kaelri & I have to agree to disagree.

My definition of reasoned discussion merely means that the kids of tactics we so often see from Dishonest Abe, Dodgey Rogie, and others (wherein they dash in, call us all a bunch of racists and bigots, then dash out) doesn't qualify.

Despite disagreement, the kid hangs in there and presents arguments intelligently. They may be wrong, but at least there's some thought behind them - which clearly isn't the case with the idiots I cited above.

As I've attempted - without apparent success - to explain to the kid, there's a fundamental reason why these aliens are properly referred to as "illegal aliens". Unlike some, I believe not only that it is possible to deport them - I believe that that's the only responsible course to take.

This "pathway to citizenship" nonsense is just that - nonsense. There already is a pathway to citizenship, and I know several people who've availed themselves of that pathway.

We don't need a special "pathway" for those who choose to break our laws.

Kaelri said...

"As I've attempted - without apparent success - to explain to the kid, there's a fundamental reason why these aliens are properly referred to as "illegal aliens". Unlike some, I believe not only that it is possible to deport them - I believe that that's the only responsible course to take."

You'll find no disagreement with that, in this post or in any other on which I have commented.

Anonymous said...

Mexican illegal ex-pats denied the vote for president in Mexico. Many could not provide the necessary Federal I D card. Imagine that! No I D not voting rights.

Wake up America!

Anonymous said...

Kaelri said...

it's not their fault that it's their fault..........


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