Friday, July 21, 2006

I'll pay for your plane ticket...

The folks over at Indymedia, who are sorely lacking jobs, have yet another protest planned:

Dear friends,
Please consider joining the Palestine Arab-American Association (PAA), Americans United for Palestinian Human Rights(AUPHR), PPRC and other local organizations this Friday for an action calling for an end to the Israeli attacks on Lebanon and Gaza.

But I'm encouraged by their eternal activism and love for the terrorist savages, I mean peace loving Muslims, of Hamas and Hezollah. So much so that I think they should not have to protest from the distant location of Pioneer Courthouse Square (Portland's living room... of a meth house) but they should go tell their "friends" in the middle east in person how much they support them.

Now Indy boys, make sure to where your fishnet stockings and "Anarchy" t-shirts. And Indy girls, don't forget the 3,000 piercings and your "I [heart] abortion" shirts. I'm sure that you and your "friends" that you support will get along just fine.

20 comments:

Kaelri said...

This would be what is known as a "head banging desk" moment.

There are a few concepts at work here that you seem to consistently dismiss in favor of a more dramatic and confrontational approach:

One. People don't like war. Some people don't believe war is justified. Some people believe war is always the greater of two evils. Some people believe killing 300 innocent civilians in retaliation for the killing of 34 innocent civilians is a bit skewed.

Two. Condemning one side of a war is not praising the other.

You can disagree completely with those philosophies, but that's what they believe. If you feel some unrestrainable urge to criticize a peaceful protest of violence, would you at least address their actual motivations instead of putting words in their mouths and pretending that they have some anti-American agenda?

If these people are wrong - and I don't believe they are, myself - it's because they're naive, not because they're evil. There is no point or purpose of insinuating otherwise.

Scottiebill said...

So kaelri is against war and all its consequences. That, to me, translates into "It's OK for Hamas and Hezbollah to attack Israel and get not retaliation." Apparently kaelri thinks that Israel should tell Hamas and Hezbollah, "We really wish you wouldn't do that. Please, pretty please, stop."

How stupid!!!

War is hell, to quote Sherman. But there are times, and this is one of them, when it is necessary. But, then again, the liberal lefties have no real concept of that. All they seem to understand is accusations, appeasment, kowtowing to the terrorists, name-calling, and blaming America, and especially President Bush and our military, for everything that is going wrong in the world. Even natural disasters, such as hurricanes, tsunamis, typhoons, and tornadoes.

And, on top of all that, they buy into all the garbage that wackos, like Al Gore, try to push off on us.

Kaelri said...

Please read my post again, Scottiebill. You missed the point entirely.

Roger Doger said...

Although I am usually on the side of "no war" and do oppose the Iraq War, I think that what Israel is doing is necessary for their own security. Even after much concessions they have made moving from the Gaza Strip, Hamas Extremists still see fit to attack the civilian centres with bombs.

With Lebanon, it was Hezbollah that aggravated the situation by kidnapping Israeli soldiers and furthermore firing missiles into country's interior targeting civilians. I can't figure out your view that they are wrong for responding.

The truth of the situation is Israel is constantly being assulted. Regardless of how you feel about the state and it's creation in '48 or the Six Day War, they exist and should not be under constant threat by acts of terrorism. Yes, it is terrorism to strap a bomb on a blow up a bus filled with civilians. Even if you think that this conflict exists because "U.S. influence in the region", that really doesn't matter. Israeli citizens are at risk and the state needs to do what it needs to do to secure their safety.

As I write this, the Israeli Government is calling up reserves. If they end up invading Lebanon, it will be because the Lebanese Government was too weak and failed to control Hezbollah.

Again, Israel has a duty to protect it's citizens. If you look over the entire conflict, Israel has only targeted Hezbollah strong holds and strategic sites that militants are using. On the other hand, Hezbollah has fired countless missiles indiscriminantly into the countries interior targeting centres of civilian population. This is wrong and in my view, Israel has the right to deal with it by use of military force.

Rooster said...

kaelri,

There are a few concepts at work here that liberals seem to consistently dismiss in favor of a more dramatic and confrontational approach:

One. Conservatives do not like illegal aliens taking over our country. All we hear in the media, written or oral...is Bigoted, Rascist, Nativists who are against imigration. This morning I heard, on talk radio (airhead america), that President Bush is vetoeing stem cell research. Well, wait...I thought he was vetoeing a spending bill for Government Research on EMBRYONIC stem cell research...two different animals.

Two. Just because I don't want my tax dollars spent to kill babies does not mean that I don't like people in wheelchairs.

Thanks,

Rooster

Anonymous said...

I believe that Israel is also right to defend itself. However, we should take this a step further, and the United States and its allies should join Israel on this venture. We should send everything we have to Israel and destroy Hamas and Hezbollah wherever they may hide... including Syria. We must destroy this evil and end this once and for all.

Bobkatt said...

Kaelri-stop banging your head and maybe you could see the world as it is and not just how you want it to be.

One. People don't like war. Some people don't believe war is justified. Some people believe war is always the greater of two evils. Some people believe killing 300 innocent civilians in retaliation for the killing of 34 innocent civilians is a bit skewed.
On the first point obviously some people like war there never seems to be a shortage of wars in the world.
On point two, yes there are pacifists who believe no war is justified, they call them slaves. The pacisfists usually depend on others to protect them from aggressors. Also I have a hard time believing the demonstrators are pacifists when a lot of the demonstrations end up in some sort of violence toward police or counter-demonstrators.
On point three, if you really don't believe war is ever justified, it seems odd to compare body counts as though one side is less culpible because they have suffered more loss.

Two. Condemning one side of a war is not praising the other.
Yeah, it is. Where was the demonstration against Hezzbollah for initiating the violence? Why do they always condemn only one side if they are anti-war.
From:The Middle East Intellengence Bulletin
Hezbollah's Strategic Rocket Arsenal
Gary C. Gambill
"In the two and a half years since Israel withdrew from south Lebanon, it has fortified outposts to resist mortar attacks, built an electrified fence along the border, installed surveillance cameras and heat sensors to detect infiltration attempts, and employed reconnaissance drones to closely monitor enemy activity on the other side for signs of impending attacks. It remains defenseless, however, against the militant Shi'ite Hezbollah movement's growing arsenal of up to 10,000 short and long-range rockets, including hundreds capable of striking into the civilian and industrial heartland of the Jewish state."
NOTE: This is from November 2002.
It seems to me that Israel has huge amount of patience. By supporting only one side of the issue you are empowering that side to continue to escalate the violence.
I don't claim to know which side of this feud is more correct but I know the same thing has been going on since before I was born and we are no closer to resolution than before. From what I see, the more Israel capitulates the more violence is visited upon them. As Sharon was vacating the West Bank and Gaza the Palestinians voted in Hamas the most radical extremist violent group that doesn't believe Israel has a right to exist.
It seems to me that if indeed you are against war you don't side with those who believe it's ok to put bombs on your own people, to back out of every negotiated peace agreement, to continue to launch hundreds of missiles into civilian population without warning.
And lastly, why is it that in the hundreds of skirmishes throughout the world, the Moslems seem to be involved in almost every one of them?

BEAR said...

kaelri, you are the poster child for naivete. You are spouting childlike philosophy in an adult world, and must answer to adults. Thanx for the laughs, though. My 11 year-old is using your stuff to inform his peers on how you, an idiot, view the world.

Kaelri said...

Well. That was impressive. Four different replies and each of them misconstrued my point entirely.

I myself would not participate in that protest. I believe that some wars are justified and that condemning one side alone has the implicit effect of praising the other. Yes, you'll notice that both of those things are contrary to the two points I outlined this morning. I was attempting to represent the position of these Indymedia protesters, who seem to be much smarter than I am in that they don't persist in wasting their time in places like this.

My point was that there is no reason to believe that their purpose is anything other than what they say it is. They oppose war and support peace on behalf of innocent Lebanese. And while I cannot repeat what they have yet to say, I believe they don't condemn Hezbollah because there's nobody to convince in the United States. Americans oppose terrorism; I think that's as universally accepted as it could ever need to be. They do not secretly condone Hezbollah. That's what Daniel was insinuating, and it's simply incorrect.

I believe that stupidity and naiveté is far more widespread than conspiracy and evil. And it's important to make that distinction because the former two are much easier to heal.

- "I have a hard time believing the demonstrators are pacifists when a lot of the demonstrations end up in some sort of violence toward police or counter-demonstrators."

I don't have statistics, and if you're referring specifically to Portland portestors or Indymedia, then you probably know better than I do, but in general, I would expect that the vast majority of protests occur without incident, for which reason we usually don't hear about them.

- "...if you really don't believe war is ever justified, it seems odd to compare body counts as though one side is less culpible because they have suffered more loss."

Those three points were only multiple explanations for the root statement, which is that "people don't like war." There are quite a few different reasons and principles that can lead one to the same conclusions.

- "And lastly, why is it that in the hundreds of skirmishes throughout the world, the Moslems seem to be involved in almost every one of them?"

I'd be interested to hear you enumerate those skirmishes. But you're probably right. It has plenty to do with the fact that a huge amount of them are taking place in the Middle East, which, obviously, has been going on since the Great War and is largely the cause, rather than the effect, of Islamic fanaticism. But I can name quite a few conflicts that have nothing to do with Islam. China/Taiwan? Ireland/Britain (though, happily, that seems to be dying down)? East Timor? Genocide in Africa? Ethnic cleansing in the Balkans? Illegal immigration in the United States? ;)

BEAR said...

kaelri, you've done it again, bless your little heart. "East Timor"....muslims murdering Christians...."genocide in africa"....in Darfur, muslims murdering Christians, and in Nigeria, muslims murdering Christians, and in Somalia, muslims murdering anybody not wanting them in power...."ethnic cleansing in the balkans"....murder based on religion (no heros there) in Bosnia, Kosovo, Macedonia, etc.. Once more you have supplanted wisdom and knowledge with idiocy. Keep up the good work. You made bobkatt look pretty good. BTW, kidiot, Northern Ireland and Taiwan in no way refute the statement that "muslims seem to be involved in almost every one of them."

Kaelri said...

I dispute your characterizations of Darfur, East Timor, and Nigeria Somalia, I concede.

But how are Ireland and Taiwan invalid? They fit the criteria: they're conflicts, or potential conflicts, and they don't involve Islam in any way whatsoever.

BEAR said...

dispute all you want. and do your own homework, kidiot. I forgot to add the Sudan as ANOTHER case of muslims murdering Christians in Africa.

Kaelri said...

No, you didn't. Darfur is the western region of Sudan in which the genocide is taking place. The links I subsequently provided constitute "homework," as per your request; you'll find, therein, a number of explanations for the respective situations, none of them mentioning Islam in any incarnation.

BEAR said...

wrong, again, kaelri. Your wikipedia source, under 'origins of the conflict,' notes "arab," "muslim," and "sharia law." So much for you citing a source, then ignoring it. DO YOUR HOMEWORK, kidiot! Better yet, leave your failed socialist ideology at home, and learn from those of us who know.

Kaelri said...

The civil wars which were prompted by the instatement of Sharia law were concluded last year. The continuing rebellion consists of the actions of the Alliance of Revolutionary Forces of West Sudan.

retnuH reaB said...

Bear, You know if I were your daddy, I would have dropped you on your head when you were born. Actually, maybe your momma dropped you on your head after seeing what kind of f'd up spawn she squeezed out. That was probably before she she traded you for the meth she smoked in her pipe.

The only "kidiot" here is you. Why Kaelri even tries to talk reason to a redneck slimbag like you is beyond any thinking person. He/She would do better trading you in for a pet monkey.

~retnuH reaB

BEAR said...

no sale, boys. next you'll be saying that 9/11 was fabricated, and that the twin towers were moved by David Copperfield....sheesh.

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