Several threads ago Daniel posted video from an event in Cornelius in which he snidely remarked That's mainstream!" while obviously meaning that the self-described socialists who were on hand to support immigrant rights were not mainstream -- as if to suggest those not in the mainstream have no political legitimacy (and that those who are in the mainstream do).
Okay, fine. See the article posted on Lars Larson's web site today: A USA TODAY/Gallup Poll taken last weekend found that 78% of respondents feel people now in the country illegally should be given a chance at citizenship.
Oklahoma just passed tough Illegal Alien laws this week, to include NO Jobs or Benefits for Illegals. GA., AZ. & Co. have done the same thing. (Dem. Gov. of AZ, Vetoed some)
Carpentersville Ill. just watched their entire City Council get Voted out Tues., because they would not pass Bills to stop Illegals from getting Housing & jobs. Public voted in new Council to enforce the laws Feds aren't.
Same thing happened in Hazelton PA. last year.
John McCain has STOPPED supporting Kennedy Amnesty Bill and fired 1/2 his staff for lack of funds (America knows he supports Amnesty & we do not)
New (?) immigration Bills (Kennedy/Flake-no McCain this time? hmmm) have same exact policies as Amnesty of 1986, which obviously didn't work. As more Americans get educated on the truth, they will say NO to another Amnesty.
Silly people-LEGAL-years of paperwork & money-FIVE years after perm. res. alien to become a citizen-LEGAL Immigrants-do NOT want Amnesty/reward for Illegals-Hello? Are LEGAL immigrants stupid for obeying laws of America? Then what would you open border types say to them?
Some Politicians want a permanent underclass of people that have no skills (H.S drop outs)or language understanding-it's easier to control idiots-Salem School Board and Supt. Husk & House Education Committee members are GUILTY of this and should be ashamed of their apathy to solve the education gap, especially KING (D)Jeff Merkley.
I have been at the Capitol many times now, I know it is true, i have spoken directly with these empty suits.
Election season 2008 will be fun. I am raising money now to run huge ads and educate public on what their "Leaders" have/will not do.
How in the world can something be a "hard right Stalinist line"?
As I recall, Stalin, like most great mass murderers of recent history, was pretty hard left. I know its been a while since the fall but do we now have people who do not know the Soviet Union was a communist state?
Ok - so basically "hard right" means bad? In other words Stalin, being a communist leader, was by definition left wing. However because he was more totalitarian than other Soviet leaders he immediately becomes "hard right"?
That is ridiculous. Dire consequences for those that don't toe the party line is something far more associated with the left, historically, than the right. Mao, Pol Pot, Stalin, Kim Il Sung the list goes on. All left wing leaders. All mass murderers.
I think you have been using "right wing" as a synonym for bad or evil for so long you have lost its meaning.
I'm not saying that Stalin was right wing (although I did point out that at the extremes left and right start looking very similar.)
What I'm saying is that the far right in this country is Stalinist in desiring to purge thosev who do not toe a very narrow ideological line.
Thus, Republicans who voice the occasional dissenting opinion are seen as RINOs. Not only is no discussion allowed, but the dissenter must be removed. That's Stalinism.
With all due respect. You could poll a grilled cheese and get the same "poll" results. Question the people doing the poll...but then that is just common sense.
Thankfully we live in a country whose democractic infrastructure is strong enough to recognize Daniel and his Tancredo-loving clan for what they really are: a scapegoating mass of backwater marginalists; truly the cultural wreckage of our time. When the Nazis rose to power in the 1930s, they were able to convice the German masses that the Jews (and the Catholics, and the homosexuals, and the intellectuals, etc) were the source of the nation's problems, and the result was mass extermination endorsed by public opinion. Thankfully that is not likely to happen here.
Daniel would have us believe that unauthorized immigrants from Mexico are the scourge of our nation, even though they continue to perform an increasing share of the nation's dirty work, allowing most of us to pursue work that doesn't require us to get our hands dirty.
Daniel would have us believe that the overwhelming majority of Mexican immigrants are drug dealers and violent offenders. As with any population the world over, such dregs constitute only a small minority of the Mexican immigrant population.
Thankfully most Americans are reasonable, and probably open to legislation that would allow those here working, pay taxes, and otherwise abiding by the law, to adjust their status and continue contributing to the most dynamic -culturally, religiously, and ideologically - nation on earth. This legislation will likely happen, and I for one look forward to Daniel's posts after it does.
Dearest tiredofthe...etc., I understand that you lefty, anti-Americans view anyone who believes in the rule of law as a "nazi." How quaint, how typically left of you. Then you express your thanks that "mass extermination" won't "happen here." If we are as violent as you suggest, who's going to stop the "mass extermination" from occurring? The appeasers, surrender monkeys, and those of french descent on the left? That's an idiotic proposition, but typical of you lefties. If you clowns somehow have us under your control, why the fuss from the left? If folks who believe in the rule of law are in the minority, as you state, then anarchy rules, the left wins, and we can be ignored. I get the feeling that you bozos don't believe your own words, and continue with the anti-American propaganda more to convince yourselves, than in any hope of actually persuading the majority of folks who actually DO believe in the rule of law. Your use of the term "unauthorized immigrants from" mehico implies that you understand and choose to spin the correct term...illegal aliens. That you won't recognize the other 44% of illegal aliens who start from other countries is a transparent omission. The truckers, service employees, carpenters, and many others are becoming more aware that their wages are being depressed, and their jobs hijacked, by illegal aliens, with the full complicity of our so-called public servants. John McCain and other politicians are well aware of the majority opinion of actual Americans, who are growing more tired of the wholesale identity-theft, illegal employment, evasion of taxes, and inundation of our schools by folks whose very presence is a crime. Your factual errors, and outright lies betray your anti-American ideology, and lack of regard for those folks persuing LEGAL entry into this country. Shame on you and your lefty pals.
Actually people that are EDUCATED, remember the "Guest worker" program of 1986. We remember the 1st BOMBING of the World Trade Center, was conducted by a guy who got Amnesty as a Farm"Worker". Feds cannot check the background of 3 million, let alone 20 million.
We remember Sen. Ted Kennedy (look it up) saying this would only happen ONE time (1986)and this Bill also includes huge enforcement laws for employers and States to not aid and abett & for local enforcement to work with the feds to prevent future Illegals from walking out of Jails and not being deported.
OBVIOUSLY-HE/THEY LIED and did NO Enforcement and now it is 12-20, not just 3 million.
Those that are EDUCATED know that they will NOT enforce the laws again and are only dangling a carrott for tens of millions more to sneak in to REPLACE YOU, your BOSS thinks YOU cost too much and YOU want Health Care.
& with FREE (to illegals) College, ALL OF US ARE EXPENDABLE!
Two lines are forming-Tax payer or Tax Taker, which one are your kids going to be? Gov. Ted can't live on Food Stamps, will your Child have too?
Oh and can the other FOUR BILLION living in worse conditions than our southern nieghbors ALL come here too? Why not? Don't they deserve a better life?
Not enough Cars on the road? Crowded Schools? Air/Water Pollution? Over priced teeny homes? Insurance rates not high enough?
If Amnesty passes these will all happen-10 times faster. And your Kids will blame it on the open border idiots.
Anon 8.26 - I did pay attention, you simply had poor word choice using Stalinist in a right wing context. Basically it doesnt work.
At any rate I do see what you are trying to say now. Its ludicrous. Republicans who "dissent" are criticized, but thats about it. Democrats who "dissent" are treated in more of the Stalin like fashion you describe. You might not agree with that, but I would tend to think Joe Lieberman would.
The fact that Daniel stakes out a position that is against a position taken by others does not make him a racist. He implicates himself as a racist, by virtue of his own commentary.
He is not a racist because I say he's one, or because anyone says he's one; it doesn't matter what others say; what matters is what he says.
I am convinced, however, that he really doesn't think he is racist, which basically points to his stupidity. But then: Does an insane person know he's insane?
I have hope for him, myself. He spent some time on the wrong side of the law, realized it, learned from it, and moved on. Someday, he's going to realize some other things, too. Not because of what anyone here says. I suspect that life will intervene; his ideology will collide with reality.
And like "Tired" said, it will be interesting to read his blog then.
I wasn't trying to engage in some sort of a pissing match by drawing a parallel between the Nazi scapegoating of the Jews and Minuteman-style scapegoating of Mexican immigrants. I was only pointing out that there seemed to be a parallel there (should I have used Kosovo or Rwanda instead?), and as a democratic nation, we ought to pay attention to it, and decide whether or not we believe it's justified.
I don't think so. You probably don't give a shit what I think. In fact, Bear made that incredibly clear.
I don't care. I don't think any segment of our population should be scapegoated, legal or otherwise, so fuck off. Again, you won't agree, but that's fine.
Rick, all of your capital letters lead me to believe that your cholesterol is way too high. Perhaps you should see a doctor. And if possible, maybe you could produce some sources that support your claims. As far as I know, there isn't a reliable economist or social scientist who is willing to argue that low skilled immigration produces a negative net effect on our economy.
It would be nice to see y'all actually DISCUSS (uh oh, there I go with the all caps) some policy intervention rather than drone on with the ethnically charged invective.
I'm not holding my breath.
Bear, peace be with you.
Rick, try some bran cereal; wear a tie this weekend.
Milton Friedman, Noble prize winner Economics-"it is impossible to have mass immigration and the Welfare state together"..."It doesn't work"..."It totally alters the incentive structure for immigration".
National Research Council report, The New Americans-"Essentially NO benefit to native-born Americans in aggregate; actually a significant LOSS, because of costs of the Welfare state, Schools & emergency room health care, which are very substantial." "every native born Califronian is subsidizing the immigrant presence by about $1,000 a year."
We are sudsidizing our own displacement & YOUR JOB IS NEXT.
Two examples, why do I bother? I do not like ties, but thank you.
The problem with the xenophobes is that they put forth conflicting arguments:
1. Immigrants are lazy and use up government services.
2. Immigrants are hard workers and are taking away jobs from Americans.
The second one is probably closer to the truth. I've heard employers say that immigrants show up on time, arrive ready to work hard, and don't complain about hard work.
But isn't capitalism about competition? According to free-market theory, if you're able to provide a better service for less money, don't you deserve the job?
The folks who complain about immigrants taking away jobs don't seem to complain much about jobs lost due to companies moving production outside of the U.S. How is it that jobs lost due to one reason is good, while jobs lost due to another is bad.
There is a way to drastically reduce the flow of immigrants from Mexico: Change NAFTA to protect workers' rights in Mexico, so that the economy of Mexico will improve.
I realize it's a challenge for right-wingers to support policies that actually help people, but this is an opportunity.
25 comments:
On the backside of the Fishwraps (Oregonian) Metro section on April 18, was a full-page ad the reads: "Democrats Support Gordon Smith."
Web: www.democratsforsmith.com
Yep, deport Gordon Smith. Good grief!
Yep, we should deport all of those who don't follow the hard-right line of Stalinist Republicans.
Several threads ago Daniel posted video from an event in Cornelius in which he snidely remarked That's mainstream!" while obviously meaning that the self-described socialists who were on hand to support immigrant rights were not mainstream -- as if to suggest those not in the mainstream have no political legitimacy (and that those who are in the mainstream do).
Okay, fine. See the article posted on Lars Larson's web site today: A USA TODAY/Gallup Poll taken last weekend found that 78% of respondents feel people now in the country illegally should be given a chance at citizenship.
Who's not mainstream?
ZOBY Poll of 2 weeks ago said the OPPOSITE!
Oklahoma just passed tough Illegal Alien laws this week, to include NO Jobs or Benefits for Illegals.
GA., AZ. & Co. have done the same thing. (Dem. Gov. of AZ, Vetoed some)
Carpentersville Ill. just watched their entire City Council get Voted out Tues., because they would not pass Bills to stop Illegals from getting Housing & jobs. Public voted in new Council to enforce the laws Feds aren't.
Same thing happened in Hazelton PA. last year.
John McCain has STOPPED supporting Kennedy Amnesty Bill and fired 1/2 his staff for lack of funds (America knows he supports Amnesty & we do not)
New (?) immigration Bills (Kennedy/Flake-no McCain this time? hmmm) have same exact policies as Amnesty of 1986, which obviously didn't work.
As more Americans get educated on the truth, they will say NO to another Amnesty.
Silly people-LEGAL-years of paperwork & money-FIVE years after perm. res. alien to become a citizen-LEGAL Immigrants-do NOT want Amnesty/reward for Illegals-Hello? Are LEGAL immigrants stupid for obeying laws of America? Then what would you open border types say to them?
Some Politicians want a permanent underclass of people that have no skills (H.S drop outs)or language understanding-it's easier to control idiots-Salem School Board and Supt. Husk & House Education Committee members are GUILTY of this and should be ashamed of their apathy to solve the education gap, especially KING (D)Jeff Merkley.
I have been at the Capitol many times now, I know it is true, i have spoken directly with these empty suits.
Election season 2008 will be fun.
I am raising money now to run huge ads and educate public on what their "Leaders" have/will not do.
One name: Tom Tancredo.
Ah yes, another meeting of Klansmen for immigration reform.
How in the world can something be a "hard right Stalinist line"?
As I recall, Stalin, like most great mass murderers of recent history, was pretty hard left. I know its been a while since the fall but do we now have people who do not know the Soviet Union was a communist state?
In name only, R Huse.
The hard-right Stalinists are those who insist on ideological purity, with dire consequences for those who don't toe the party line.
Remember, too, that at some point far-left and far-right start looking very much alike.
Anon 4.25
Ok - so basically "hard right" means bad? In other words Stalin, being a communist leader, was by definition left wing. However because he was more totalitarian than other Soviet leaders he immediately becomes "hard right"?
That is ridiculous. Dire consequences for those that don't toe the party line is something far more associated with the left, historically, than the right. Mao, Pol Pot, Stalin, Kim Il Sung the list goes on. All left wing leaders. All mass murderers.
I think you have been using "right wing" as a synonym for bad or evil for so long you have lost its meaning.
r huse,
Please try to pay attention.
I'm not saying that Stalin was right wing (although I did point out that at the extremes left and right start looking very similar.)
What I'm saying is that the far right in this country is Stalinist in desiring to purge thosev who do not toe a very narrow ideological line.
Thus, Republicans who voice the occasional dissenting opinion are seen as RINOs. Not only is no discussion allowed, but the dissenter must be removed. That's Stalinism.
Tom Tancredo or no one else
With all due respect. You could poll a grilled cheese and get the same "poll" results. Question the people doing the poll...but then that is just common sense.
Thankfully we live in a country whose democractic infrastructure is strong enough to recognize Daniel and his Tancredo-loving clan for what they really are: a scapegoating mass of backwater marginalists; truly the cultural wreckage of our time. When the Nazis rose to power in the 1930s, they were able to convice the German masses that the Jews (and the Catholics, and the homosexuals, and the intellectuals, etc) were the source of the nation's problems, and the result was mass extermination endorsed by public opinion. Thankfully that is not likely to happen here.
Daniel would have us believe that unauthorized immigrants from Mexico are the scourge of our nation, even though they continue to perform an increasing share of the nation's dirty work, allowing most of us to pursue work that doesn't require us to get our hands dirty.
Daniel would have us believe that the overwhelming majority of Mexican immigrants are drug dealers and violent offenders. As with any population the world over, such dregs constitute only a small minority of the Mexican immigrant population.
Thankfully most Americans are reasonable, and probably open to legislation that would allow those here working, pay taxes, and otherwise abiding by the law, to adjust their status and continue contributing to the most dynamic -culturally, religiously, and ideologically - nation on earth. This legislation will likely happen, and I for one look forward to Daniel's posts after it does.
Dearest tiredofthe...etc., I understand that you lefty, anti-Americans view anyone who believes in the rule of law as a "nazi." How quaint, how typically left of you. Then you express your thanks that "mass extermination" won't "happen here." If we are as violent as you suggest, who's going to stop the "mass extermination" from occurring? The appeasers, surrender monkeys, and those of french descent on the left? That's an idiotic proposition, but typical of you lefties. If you clowns somehow have us under your control, why the fuss from the left? If folks who believe in the rule of law are in the minority, as you state, then anarchy rules, the left wins, and we can be ignored. I get the feeling that you bozos don't believe your own words, and continue with the anti-American propaganda more to convince yourselves, than in any hope of actually persuading the majority of folks who actually DO believe in the rule of law.
Your use of the term "unauthorized immigrants from" mehico implies that you understand and choose to spin the correct term...illegal aliens. That you won't recognize the other 44% of illegal aliens who start from other countries is a transparent omission. The truckers, service employees, carpenters, and many others are becoming more aware that their wages are being depressed, and their jobs hijacked, by illegal aliens, with the full complicity of our so-called public servants. John McCain and other politicians are well aware of the majority opinion of actual Americans, who are growing more tired of the wholesale identity-theft, illegal employment, evasion of taxes, and inundation of our schools by folks whose very presence is a crime. Your factual errors, and outright lies betray your anti-American ideology, and lack of regard for those folks persuing LEGAL entry into this country. Shame on you and your lefty pals.
scapegoating mass of backwater marginalists
Can I please get that on a t-shirt?
TIREDOF...
Actually people that are EDUCATED, remember the "Guest worker" program of 1986.
We remember the 1st BOMBING of the World Trade Center, was conducted by a guy who got Amnesty as a Farm"Worker". Feds cannot check the background of 3 million, let alone 20 million.
We remember Sen. Ted Kennedy (look it up) saying this would only happen ONE time (1986)and this Bill also includes huge enforcement laws for employers and States to not aid and abett & for local enforcement to work with the feds to prevent future Illegals from walking out of Jails and not being deported.
OBVIOUSLY-HE/THEY LIED and did NO Enforcement and now it is 12-20, not just 3 million.
Those that are EDUCATED know that they will NOT enforce the laws again and are only dangling a carrott for tens of millions more to sneak in to REPLACE YOU, your BOSS thinks YOU cost too much and YOU want Health Care.
& with FREE (to illegals) College,
ALL OF US ARE EXPENDABLE!
Two lines are forming-Tax payer or Tax Taker, which one are your kids going to be? Gov. Ted can't live on Food Stamps, will your Child have too?
Oh and can the other FOUR BILLION living in worse conditions than our southern nieghbors ALL come here too? Why not? Don't they deserve a better life?
Not enough Cars on the road? Crowded Schools?
Air/Water Pollution?
Over priced teeny homes?
Insurance rates not high enough?
If Amnesty passes these will all happen-10 times faster.
And your Kids will blame it on the open border idiots.
Anon 8.26 - I did pay attention, you simply had poor word choice using Stalinist in a right wing context. Basically it doesnt work.
At any rate I do see what you are trying to say now. Its ludicrous. Republicans who "dissent" are criticized, but thats about it. Democrats who "dissent" are treated in more of the Stalin like fashion you describe. You might not agree with that, but I would tend to think Joe Lieberman would.
Hey - You know, I just realized something. According to tieredofbullshit, the majority supports amnesty.
Bush seems to support amnesty.
You know what that makes those of us who dont?
Thats it.
You got it.
We are the DISSENTERS.
Hey, wait, I want my money back. How come when the left agrees with someone its called dissent and when they dont its called racism and Nazi like?
OK - If I can get enough interest Ill have a run of T shirts printed up:
"I CHOSE TO DISSENT AND ALL I GOT CALLED WAS A SCAPEGOATING BACKWATER MARGINALIST"
The fact that Daniel stakes out a position that is against a position taken by others does not make him a racist. He implicates himself as a racist, by virtue of his own commentary.
He is not a racist because I say he's one, or because anyone says he's one; it doesn't matter what others say; what matters is what he says.
I am convinced, however, that he really doesn't think he is racist, which basically points to his stupidity. But then: Does an insane person know he's insane?
I have hope for him, myself. He spent some time on the wrong side of the law, realized it, learned from it, and moved on. Someday, he's going to realize some other things, too. Not because of what anyone here says. I suspect that life will intervene; his ideology will collide with reality.
And like "Tired" said, it will be interesting to read his blog then.
i guess i struck a chord. so be it.
I wasn't trying to engage in some sort of a pissing match by drawing a parallel between the Nazi scapegoating of the Jews and Minuteman-style scapegoating of Mexican immigrants. I was only pointing out that there seemed to be a parallel there (should I have used Kosovo or Rwanda instead?), and as a democratic nation, we ought to pay attention to it, and decide whether or not we believe it's justified.
I don't think so. You probably don't give a shit what I think. In fact, Bear made that incredibly clear.
I don't care. I don't think any segment of our population should be scapegoated, legal or otherwise, so fuck off. Again, you won't agree, but that's fine.
Rick, all of your capital letters lead me to believe that your cholesterol is way too high. Perhaps you should see a doctor. And if possible, maybe you could produce some sources that support your claims. As far as I know, there isn't a reliable economist or social scientist who is willing to argue that low skilled immigration produces a negative net effect on our economy.
It would be nice to see y'all actually DISCUSS (uh oh, there I go with the all caps) some policy intervention rather than drone on with the ethnically charged invective.
I'm not holding my breath.
Bear, peace be with you.
Rick, try some bran cereal; wear a tie this weekend.
Milton Friedman, Noble prize winner Economics-"it is impossible to have mass immigration and the Welfare state together"..."It doesn't work"..."It totally alters the incentive structure for immigration".
National Research Council report, The New Americans-"Essentially NO benefit to native-born Americans in aggregate; actually a significant LOSS, because of costs of the Welfare state, Schools & emergency room health care, which are very substantial."
"every native born Califronian is subsidizing the immigrant presence by about $1,000 a year."
We are sudsidizing our own displacement & YOUR JOB IS NEXT.
Two examples, why do I bother?
I do not like ties, but thank you.
what's a city on the hill? What's that from?
The problem with the xenophobes is that they put forth conflicting arguments:
1. Immigrants are lazy and use up government services.
2. Immigrants are hard workers and are taking away jobs from Americans.
The second one is probably closer to the truth. I've heard employers say that immigrants show up on time, arrive ready to work hard, and don't complain about hard work.
But isn't capitalism about competition? According to free-market theory, if you're able to provide a better service for less money, don't you deserve the job?
The folks who complain about immigrants taking away jobs don't seem to complain much about jobs lost due to companies moving production outside of the U.S. How is it that jobs lost due to one reason is good, while jobs lost due to another is bad.
There is a way to drastically reduce the flow of immigrants from Mexico: Change NAFTA to protect workers' rights in Mexico, so that the economy of Mexico will improve.
I realize it's a challenge for right-wingers to support policies that actually help people, but this is an opportunity.
Mexico's building Freightliner trucks, not Portland anymore.
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