Monday, August 31, 2009

It's like a blue ribbon except he stole the money from us

Governor Kulongoski tours electric vehicle companies in southern Oregon
Governor Ted Kulongoski today toured two start-up electric vehicle companies in southern Oregon as part of his initiative to transition the state toward cleaner, more sustainable transportation options.

While visiting Brammo, Inc., an electric motorcycle company headquartered in Ashland, the Governor announced a $100,000 grant from his Strategic Reserve Fund for workforce training to assist the company in growing their workforce by more than 300 employees over the next two years.

The Strategic Reserve Fund was established by the Legislature to support economic and community development in Oregon. The fund awards are at the discretion of the Governor in consultation with the Director of the Oregon Business Development Department (Business Oregon).

Are you happy that you went to work today and had 9% taken out of your pay to so the governor can "award" it to favored industries? And if you pay taxes in Jackson and Josephine counties you got whacked again.

"The grant awarded by the Governor today builds upon local investments by Jackson and Josephine counties..."

When the government "invests" in something I assume that it is doomed to fail. Good ideas attract private capitol and investors who take the risk in return for possible reward. The difference is that they risk THEIR MONEY, not ours.


Anonymous said...

I know exactly what you're saying, Miglavs! I mean, look at the invasion of Iraq. We "invested" like $678 billion over there, and what do we have to show for it? And we've invested about $225 billion -- again, our tax dollars -- in Afghanistan. And what's even more amazing, something that just boggles my mind, something that just raises a whole raft of questions, is: You never mention this. It's like it's not even on your radar screen. It's like it doesn't bother you. At all. And yet we're supposed to believe that you're pissed off about $100,000 being handed to an Oregon company for workforce training? You honestly expect people to believe that? Tell you what, pal, if you believe that, I'd like to discuss some choice property in the middle of the Pacific fucking Ocean I'd like to sell you.

innominatus said...

Anon 6:55, I wouldn't mention Iraq/Afg either, knowing there is such a reliable horde of people fixated on the issue who bring it up at every opportunity - whether it is relevant or not.

Bobkatt said...

Good call innominatus.

OregonGuy said...

Cronyism. Chasing the Vision™.

"Brammo, Inc. has developed and prototyped an all-electric drive motorcycle called the Enertia, providing a clean-tech, environmentally-friendly transportation option for people to use to commute to work and other shorter trips."

This is silliness on its face. Want a form of riding that already exists and is, technically, Green?

Buy a horse.

Anonymous said...

Hey, by all means, guys. So let's be like Daniel: Let's beat our chests and pump our fists and bitch and moan that we're being taxed into oblivion, let's trot around in our little "tea parties" screaming with self-righteous indignation about how the government is "stealing" our money, BUT! But: Let's totally ignore the fact that more than $900 billion of our taxes has been, and is being, TOTALLY WASTED in two countries thousands of miles away -- wasted, unless of course, the goal is to ensure a steady supply of Americans coming home in body bags and with missing limbs, faces and skin. Let's not talk about this, at all, because $900 billion of our taxes isn't really "relevant," after all, and for heaven's sake don't object to it, don't complain, don't protest that. Don't even acknowledge that it's an issue ... and if anyone brings it up, just dismiss them as an out-of-touch "lib" and "un-American," and go marching on our merry way. Just keep moving. Nothing here to see, move along ...

Anonymous said...

I do not get this. Teddy supports tearing out all of the damns on the Klamath River. Damns that provide clean green energy. ELECTRICITY!!! ELECTRICITY FOR THESE STUPID ELECTRIC CARS WITH DANGEROUS BATTERIES. WTF? Democrates are stupid. Why destroy the very thing you need to power your cars???? Again, democrats are stupid. Period. Dot. Com.

Stevie said...

Daniel, you state, “When the government "invests" in something I assume that it is doomed to fail. Good ideas attract private capitol and investors who take the risk in return for possible reward. The difference is that they risk THEIR MONEY, not ours.”

That statement demonstrates an incredibly profound level of ignorance as to the history of government investment in private industry since America’s founding.

As a point of fact, a great deal of the technology you enjoy today was made possible only because government invested in that technology when the all-mighty private sector wouldn’t do it. Companies in the private sector only get involved when there is profit to be made, without undue risk or a large outlay of resources that may not produce ROI. If we were to leave such investment only to the private sector, you can be certain that America would have long ago fallen behind European and Asian countries in technology development. You can also be certain that you OWN standard of living would be lower, because many of the technologies you use on a daily basis today simply wouldn’t exist in their present form, if they even existed at all.

From the Washington Post, some examples of technology that government invested in when the private sector wouldn’t:

“...jet aviation, semiconductors, computers, the Internet, global positioning systems, laser technology, MRI technologies, high-strength steel alloys, fiber-reinforced plastics, nanotechnologies. Tens of millions of new jobs -- well-paying jobs with good benefits -- were created through these innovative industries.

Each of them arose out of government-funded research, initial development by government, requirements established by regulation, large-scale governmental demand and purchasing to provide initial markets, or some combination of these. Every one of them.

Free-market advocates want voters to believe that government dampens the growth of opportunities that a free market would otherwise generate. The history of today's economy demonstrates that, to the contrary, governmental activism has been indispensable to the growth of many of our most prosperous industries and well-paying jobs in the United States.

In so doing, it has laid the foundation for the creation of substantial private wealth as well.”

You see Daniel, not only has government investment brought us substantial amounts of useful technology that has improved our lives, but this investment has also in turn created much new PRIVATE wealth! Imagine that.

Daniel, I’m sure you have some redeeming qualities. But honestly, you don’t strike me as an educated or particularly insightful person.

Anonymous said...

Oh, go easy on Daniel, Anon 12:43. He has incredibly profound levels of ignorance about a lot of things.

Anonymous said...

When government does not have to compete or even make a profit because of unlimited taxpayer $$'s that is where it fails.

And when leaders in government advocate the destruction of the product you need to make the car successful, THAT IS JUST STUPID. ie, those damn dams.

I am still not sure how Oregon (1 dam on the Klamath River) can mandate that California (3 dams on the Klamath River) tear out dams that produce the electricity needed to run the dangerous battery cars.

Again. Democrats are stupid. oh, and since you advocate dangerous battery run cars you must hate first responders. see..that crap can work both ways.

Stevie said...

Anon 1:09, it would appear you completely missed the point.

In the earliest stages of certain technology development, government doesn’t compete precisely because there’s no one to compete with! And the reason there’s no one to compete with, is precisely because those technologies are not likely to be profitable until further developed. And so, private companies wait until the technology IS further developed by government, at which point those companies then get into the market to exploit profit opportunities associated with that technology. There are MANY successful examples of this dynamic in the history of the U.S. economy.

I thought I made that pretty clear, but nonetheless, this point seemed to fly right over your head.

As for your bizarre rant about the Klamath River dam, your argument might make sense if that dam was the only, or even primary, source of electricity in Oregon. But it isn’t. And as such, your dam argument is a complete non sequitur.

Anon 1:09, there’s a single word that describes the act of you calling OTHER people stupid. That word is “irony”.

Anonymous said...

The point is stevey

The hypocracy of it all when you are giving taxpayer money to someone for some "clean" energy car, all the while tearing out the clean energy. The Klamath River damns are not the only ones...just the ones this year.

We need to run cars on natural gas and then stop natural gas imports into makes about as much sense.

Again, if it were all worth it private industry would make it happen. Government needs to stick to what they are here for, not picking winners and losers in any industry.

Anonymous said...

Today's rant by Daniel Miglavs about government investment of taxpayer dollars was published on the Internet, which was created as the result of government investment of taxpayer dollars and has, so far, not failed.

Bill's Waste of Air said...

Hey Daniel, I see most of your trolls are "anonymous". Why don't these weasels have the balls or fur to post their names? What are they afraid of? Liberals, so cute they are.

Stevie said...

OK, Anon 2:00...Nevermind.

I can now see that you are completely incapable of grasping the concepts I'm trying to put forth in clear, simple English. Everything I've told you so far has clearly gone in one ear, and straight out the other. And rather than refute a word I've said, you've just re-stated your original, already debunked position.

I should have known better than to think I could, to borrow a phrase from Barney Frank, "have a conversation with a dining room table."

Anonymous said...

anon 10:40; 1:09 and 2:00 were all posted by

Pinkie French
K-Falls Oregon

Sorry, but I will not register with google for an account. I dont like those google people and frankly the way they have acted in China makes me not want to support them.

Anonymous said...


what part of supporting an industry about green clean energy is good all the while destroying how we get that same damn clean energy? about in one ear and out the other.





Anonymous said...

I think I get Pinkie point. In the west we are all about Hydroelectric, not coal production as in the east.

How does the govenor feel it is a good thing to destroy hydoelectric production and then invest in an industry that requires that production?

OregonGuy said...

Stevie introduces a quibble, and then amplifies the equivocation. This is good stuff!

Anonymous said...

After reading the post by the appropriately named "Bill's Waste of Air" in which he whines about anonymous trolls, I clicked on his, um, "name" and was taken to his blogger profile, which I think is worth quoting here:

"The Blogger Profile you requested cannot be displayed. Many Blogger users have not yet elected to publicly share their Profile."

Stevie said...

Pinkie, you continue to think – incorrectly and illogically – that the rationale for why government might invest in an electric car company, follows a completely linear thought process to why that same government might shut down a particular dam. In other words, you are taking two things that are not at all the same issue, and conflating them because you’ve found a single nexus upon which to compare the two. It would be like me comparing an airplane to a car because, after all, they both have wheels!

Think about it this way…you have illogically deduced that because the government is investing in an electric car company, but simultaneously tearing down a dam, that hypocrisy is involved. However, that SAME government is ALSO investing in wind energy, which is completely in keeping with the “clean energy” theme of the electric car. So, how do you factor that into your argument? Does that mitigate your charge of hypocrisy?

Actually, it shouldn’t factor into your argument at all, because aside from the nexus of “clean energy”, the fact that the state is investing in this electric car company’s job creation efforts, has scant little to do with the state’s efforts in wind energy. Just like the fact that the state is investing in this electric car company’s job creation efforts, has scant little to do with the state’s efforts in tearing down a particular dam.

There is only “hypocrisy” here, if you are completely incapable of rational thought.

Stevie said...

"Quibble"? "Amplifies the equivocation"?

LOL! Them's big words for a right-winger, OregonGuy!

Don't go away just yet. Share some more big words with us! Pretty please!

DAVE01 said...

Maybe Ted could stay in southern oregon. I sure don't want the idiot back in Salem. He and his fellow democrats have fucked this state up.

Anonymous said...

Anon 6:55 nails it. If the government comes along and snatches $10,000 from Daniel Miglavs' wallet and uses it to kill people (and get Americans killed), he doesn't say anything, doesn't even notice, doesn't care. But if the government comes along and takes a penny or a nickel and spends it on a statue for a park or lunch for a kid who doesn't have enough to eat, he goes raving batshit crazy. "Stealing!" Etc. Memo to Miglavs: The U.S. Constitution provides for the taxation of citizens, which includes YOU. It is not "stealing," you idiotic man-child.

Bill's Waste of Air said...

Hey anonymous whatever time you were: If you CANT FIND my blog, you are a real simpleton.
It's pretty easy to see: and my profile is VERY public, as a radio talk show host. You must have troubles with Google, you know China and all that.

Anonymous said...

Bill, I think what that person was referring to was the fact that when others click on your user name, it does not in fact reveal a damn thing about you. It only says that you have chosen to not reveal your details.

This does make you anonymous to anyone who doesn't choose to waste their time looking for you.

Seriously, if you're too flipping stupid to figure out the irony between your earlier comment and your profile status,'ll probably be right at home here.