Thursday, November 15, 2007

Ask Hillary what she thinks about Kulongoski's idea


Kulongoski poses with the (former) Mexican Consul to Oregon who says that rape is just part of Mexican culture.

Kulongoski still supports driver's licenses for illegal immigrants
Oregon Gov. Ted Kulongoski still supports giving driver's licenses to illegal immigrants, even though New York Gov. Eliot Spitzer has backed away from a similar proposal.

Spokeswoman Patty Wentz said Kulongoski believes life would be safer for all if illegal immigrants had to go through the process of getting licenses.

The chairman of the Senate Transportation Committee, Democrat Rick Metsger, said the consensus among lawmakers is that the public strongly opposes the idea.

He "believes life would be safer." Life is safer if we provide ID for criminals who otherwise wouldn't get it? I have an easier time believing in the tooth fairy. At least most of the lame-brains in Salem have realized which way the wind blows on this one.

Unfortunately the status quo is for illegal aliens to get this valuable ID and through inaction the legislature can keep this travesty going without generating a lot of public controversy like they would if they offered a "driving priviledge card." I think that we will be checking our ballots to solve this problem.

25 comments:

Anonymous said...

we should focus on the auto.Remove the access to the auto=problem solved.Every car has "id" match that to the owner and insurance policy.no insurance no car

Anonymous said...

Daniel -

In my reading, it seems that most of law enforcement endorses the granting of driver's licenses to illegals. Any thoughts as to why?

Anthony "press 1 for English" Delucca said...

A SSN matching system would make life a whole lot easier on this issue. The system is available, it's easy to use, gives an almost instant answer, and the fed's will provide the funds / resources to get the system up and running. From what I understand, the feds already offered the funds for the project, but the Govenor refused to set the system into place.

I can think of no reason whatsoever why the Govenor would NOT want to do this other than to pander to the illegal immigrant / Pro-Illegal Immigrant crowd. He hasn't given any reasonable explanation to make me believe otherwise.

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Douglas Masters said...

So you think because you deny drivers licenses to illegals that they are gonna stop driving? You are more stupid than I thought. As a long time conservative independent, I am sad that people like you run around thinking you are wise conservatives.

AAA has extensive reports on how Unlicensed drivers are almost five times more likely to be in a fatal crash than are validly licensed drivers. This seems like a threat to public safety to me.

Is it now that the nativist crowd wants Oregon families to be at risk on Oregon's roads as well? Figures. More brain dead policies from the mind of those blinded by their own hate.

The fact that you anti-immigrant loons think that if undocs can't get licenses, they will self deport. That is not the case at all. There are extensive reports on that as well. For one, the non-partisan policy org, StateAction, found that driver's license restrictions have not deterred illegal immigration. Nor have they encouraged existing immigrants to return to their homelands.

I think it is high time for you black and white thinkers on this issue to wake up. Your plan of dealing with illegals is not working and it is a threat to public safety.

Anonymous said...

Douglas Masters:

Please define the word "Nativist". It seems that the pro-illegal crowd has invented the word to use as a slur rather than resorting to calling us all "racist".

It's a ploy to use when you cannot win a debate. Resort to name calling in order to put the opposing side on the defensive. Now, instead of rational debate, I am somehow supposed to be offended by this ne word, and will dump my argument in favor of defending myself against this bullshit made-up word.

Anthony "not Tony" DeLucca said...

I found one entry in the Merriam-Webster Dictionary (newest edition):

nativism
One entry found.

nativism

Main Entry: na·tiv·ism
Pronunciation: \ˈnā-ti-ˌvi-zəm\
Function: noun
Date: 1844
1 : a policy of favoring native inhabitants as opposed to immigrants
2 : the revival or perpetuation of an indigenous culture especially in opposition to acculturation


So I guess that I cannot be considered a "Nativist" since I'm not indigeneous, nor am I a Native Inhabitant.

As a matter of fact, I wasn't even born in this country, I'm originally from Palermo, Sicily (my family came here LEGALLY in 1971).

So I guess that suggesting this word (while not "made-up" as a previous post claims) is a bogus word, hijacked by a few nitwits to use in the place of "racist".

Yea! New words are fun!

eddie said...

Douglas,

You toss out this following bit of logic: Unlicensed drivers are 5 times more likely to be in a fatal accident than licensed ones. Then you reason that giving these unlicensed drivers licenses will make them safer on the road.

Now, I'm assuming that since unlicensed drivers are going to be overwhelmingly one of two types: 1) those folks driving with their licenses revoked, and 2) illegal aliens operating without government oversight.

The first class of driver is going to be driving without a license whether you give aliens licenses or not. So that won't reduce their portion of those figures a whit.

The second class is folks who have smuggled themselves into the country, and are driving without paperwork. Now you're claiming that by giving them a license they'll magically drive better? Do you have statistics to back up your belief? Or will handing out licenses to illegals simply change the figure so that more fatal accidents will occur with licensed drivers involved?

Now, you can hardly claim that plans proposed by those folks unwilling to accept that an invasion by foreign nationals is "inevitable", "unstoppable", etc etc are not working... because those plans have NEVER been implemented. In the limited areas where there have been actions taken, like Maricopa County in Arizona, they have seen a change in the immigration dynamic. Oddly enough, illegals stop heading to those locations, and choose more illegal-friendly areas.

Ultimately, however, you miss the point. The Driver's License in the United States has become de facto identification for everything. You use it for banking, for employment, for commercial transactions... it is considered proof of citizenship. This means either the use of a driver's license for anything but driving must be prohibited, OR the license restricted to legal residents.

Ultimately, any foreign national who plans to drive in the US can get an international license without too much trouble. I used to have one... I got it here when I had to drive in Mexico.

Anonymous said...

Nice straw man Eddie. At least Douglas brings facts. Like they say, you are entitled to your own opinion--you are not entitled to your own facts.

I would much rather have people with access to drivers licenses, than not.

Scottiebill said...

That Teddy the Useless is still all for giving illegals drivers licenses was reported in the Columbian this morning (Page A2 in gray box). Plus I heard on Lars this morning that Teddy is backing down on this, that he might have been contacted by the DNC to knock it off. At this point who knows which version is correct.

But, regardless, the State of Oregon should forget about exiling Little Gabriel to Mexico and send Teddy the Useless and Pouter Potter the Irrelevant in his place.

Anthony DeLucca said...

Access to Drivers Licenses for the sake of driving is last on the list of reasons why an illegal would want Official State ID.

There really isn't a whole lot that you can do without some form of proper ID. You need them to cash checks (usually), you need them to be legally hired (employer verification), you need them when the Police stop you for any number of reasons. Official ID helps you attain Government Services, use credit cards, get on airplanes, etc..

An official ID in the form of a State DL is more than simply a license to drive. It makes life much easier on those who posess proper ID.

Why should the State of Oregon make it easier for an Illegal Immigrant, (a person who has little regard for our laws to begin with) to stay in the country illegally, and continue to break the law?? Does the Governor really thaink that that is what the people of this State want???

I could give a dozen scenarios from a Law Enforcement perspective where a person without ID was stopped, and because they were un-licensed or had no proper ID, they were looked at a little harder and found to be wanted for crimes somewhere. Had they been able to produce proper ID, the suspicion would not be as severe, and they may have been issued a warning or ticket and released.

Issuing Drivers Licenses to Illegal Immigrants, or to those with little or no proof of who they really are, is simply a bad, bad idea.

Anonymous said...

I won't repeat what others have said.

They are right. there is no reason to give illegal aliens DL's.

The only reason is to make it easier to function in society.

Turn a blind eye -- not enforce the law that is on the books.

Kulongoski is the chief executive of this state.

When he promotes lawlessness he is not doing his job.

Giving illegal aliens DL's is enabling illegal behavior.

I sense the open border, amnesty people are getting desperate.

They thought amnesty was in the bag last winter...wrong!

There is one power that still trumps all their money and political schemes -- THE FEAR LOSING ELECTIONS.

Anonymous said...

I really like these folks throw the anti-immigrant tag around. They always leave out the pertinent word -- Illegal.

The correct term is illegal aliens.


Jack Van Nostrand
Troutdale, Oregon

R Huse said...

The thing that's astonishing is the number of people who buy into this at this point. Lets face it, having a drivers license doesn't mean jack in terms of being a safer driver. So what does?

Financial responsibility - paying insurance premiums. You run a red light, your premiums go up. Feel like speeding? your premiums go up.

Now, would everyone out there who thinks that someone who is here illegally is:

a) Going to give a real name and address at the DMV after faking an SSN?

b) Maintain an insurance policy and keep their address current with the DMV.

Please jump up and down?

Come on, we all know what this is about - soliciting the criminal vote, pure and simple. Everyone knows it, why not just admit it?

Only in Oregon could a governor be sticking with a plan even Hillary seems to have abandoned as too ludicrous a way to pad her voting constituency. At the end of the day though, you gotta hand it to the D's, they are way better at playing the political game than the R's. Only a Democrat could pull this kind of crap and still have a substantial portion of the base maintaining that its about making the roads safer and not about padding voter rolls. The thing is, I think some have actually have convinced themselves this is about safety. Sort of reminds you of 1984 - "how many fingers do you see Winston?"....."My God, I really do see four, I really do!"

Gotta hand it to him, for a guy that's in as much hot water as Ted is, and on the outside appears as sharp as a butter knife, he's good!

R Huse said...

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eddie said...

Ah anonymous, so good of you to beat me over the head with your buzzword "straw man"... oooh, impressive.

You're right, I didn't bring any new facts, I just pointed out the absurdity of Douglas' claim regarding the facts he brought. Namely, that:

Illegal Aliens don't have licenses.

People without illegal aliens cause more accidents.

Therefore give illegal aliens licenses and they'll cause less accidents!

..... let's see if I can illuminate the problem in terms you can understand.

Almost all babies wear diapers.

Babies don't use toilets, but just crap whenever they feel the urge.

Therefore, ban all diapers and babies will use toilets!!!

Anonymous said...

DeLucca!!! Welcome back dude! See the FBI report on Blackwater? I know you were so bent on giving our boys the benefit of the doubt until there was an "investigation." Which is a big ol' inconvenient contrast with the fact that if some Latino in Oregon ran over a little old lady walking her poodle across an intersection, you'd not wait for the niceties of an "investigation" before holding the guy up as just one more horrifying example of why American must turn back the brown barbarians at our gate. Hell, you probably wouldn't even wait to find out what his legal status is, would you? Don't deny it ... it's been on this blog before.

Anonymous said...

who cares what blackwater does. one good dead haj is just as good as another. one less threat to the USA.

Anonymous said...

Illegal aliens don't flock here because they can get a drivers license. That's bunk. They flock here because Oregon has one of the highest minimum wage rate in the country, there's already a large hispanic population ready to help them, and there are plentiful agricultural jobs.
Look, like I said before, my thinking on the driver's license issue is a pragmatic one:

There here, they're not going anywhere anytime soon, and, like it or not, they're driving. We don't even know how many illegal aliens are here and have no meaningful way of tracking them. A driver's license solves that at little expense. It puts them "on the grid" in some form at least. Plus it's an opportunity to not only get a better "count" of them, but also to get a fingerprint.
Require all driver's licenses issued to illegal aliens to be a different "color" so they are easily identifiable as being a driver's license issued to a non-citizen. Require illegal aliens to renew their driver's license once a year, thereby making them prove with greater frequency that they are, infact, insured.
Change the laws regulating auto insurance so that insurance companies are required to notify ODOT whenever a motorist drops their insurance. Then ODOT must be required to notify local police. clearly mark the drivers license so that it is not acceptable as a Federal form of ID, eliminating the bogus "voting" issue.
They're here, and they're driving, and unless Congress pulls it's collective head out of it's collective ass, they're just not going to be going anywhere any time soon.

Anonymous said...

Thanks to Anon 10:31 for clarifying the Miglavian world view: Some crimes [murder, committed by good ol' American Blackwater boys] are not as important as other crimes [undocumented workers driving in Oregon]. I'm sure that race/ethnicity has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with it. Nothing at all. It's a matter of >ahem< principle. Rule of law, you understand. Rule of law. Just keep repeating that to yourselves ...

Jim O'Sullivan said...

Nothing' to do with cars or insurance or safety. It's all about the vote, folks! If you can get a drivers licence, you can be rounded up and dragged into the voting booth by a Dem campaign operative on the Tuesday after the first Monday in November.
If Dems thought illegals would vote Republican, you'd have the freakin' Berlin Wall at the Mexican border, complete with the machine gun towers every 50 yards or so.
Why do you think the Dems wanted to allow convicted felons to vote?

R Huse said...

Anon 11.22

I can see some of what you are saying. I think the minimum wage thing might be true. Some companies do hire these guys, with a wink and a nod, and pay the minimum wage. Others I think simply pay cash under the table, so the minimum wage law isn't applicable.

A drivers license, however, provides no meaningful way to track illegals. It simply doesn't make sense to think that someone who broke the law entering this country, committed identity theft or simply made up an identity to get a job, will then be completely forthcoming with the DMV and follow all legal procedures. Requiring them to re register every year and the insurance agency reporting thing also wont accomplish anything, they simply wont comply. Why would they? What are we going to do, throw them in jail? We have already proven we wont do that by our vigorous non enforcement of immigration law. I highly doubt that the DMV is going to strike the fear of God into them.

As for the "bogus voting issue" that one is not about the drivers license. Changing the colour of the license, doesn't do jack. The motor voter law, signed by everyone's favorite, Mr. Bill, requires voter registration be offered when someone applies for a drivers license. The license itself is not the issue here, the fact that you get put on the rolls when you go down to the DMV is.

Look, this is about votes, not safety. If D's really thought drivers licenses were about anything other than that, then they wouldn't fight tooth and nail about requiring ID when you go to the polls. Seems pretty simple to me.

Anonymous said...

So you really think illegals, who you say aren't likely to follow any laws in the first place, are more likely than us Anglo couch potatoes with a sorry ass track record when it comes to voting...you're saying that illegals are more likely to get their asses out the door and go vote than we are? In droves?

R Huse said...

Who knows, but you don't think after going through all the trouble to get the vote for illegals the Democrats wont show up to drive them to the polls? Come on, that one is pretty obvious.

Anonymous said...

The Mexican Consulate in Portland estimates that there are 60,000 to 70,000 undocumented Mexican immigrants in Oregon.

In 2005, 1,632 Mexicans living in Oregon were granted permanent residency status. A total of 9,632 immigrants from across the globe also earned that designation in Oregon last year.
Source:Apostille US