Wednesday, December 30, 2009

Don't buy gold, buy carbon credits

Walmart, others make money on Oregon's energy tax credits
When Oregon started handing out jumbo tax subsidies for renewable energy projects two years ago, one of the biggest beneficiaries was also one of the world's richest corporations -- Walmart.

No, the retail giant hasn't branched to solar panels or wind turbines.

Instead, Walmart took advantage of a provision in Oregon's Business Energy Tax Credit that allows third parties with no ties to the green power industry to buy the credits at a discount and reduce their state income tax bills.

State records show Walmart paid $22.6 million in cash last year for the right to claim $33.6 million in energy tax credits. The cash went to seven projects, including two eastern Oregon wind farms and SolarWorld's manufacturing plant in Hillsboro. In return, Walmart profits $11 million on the deal because that's the difference between what it paid for the tax credit and the amount of its tax reduction.

This kind of accounting is the future of cap and trade. As much as liberals would like to eliminate free markets this kind of trading is the logical outcome of these silly social engineering policies.

The irony is that long before being "green" was trendy saving energy was something that people did because of self-interest. Who didn't grow up with a parent who remarked that "they weren't paying to heat the whole neighborhood" when you left the front door open in the winter?

Lawmakers and enviro-nuts act as if people wake up in the morning thinking of ways to burn fuel without getting any benefit for it and that if they just offer "free money" then energy consumption that would have happened will not and this will have no consequences.

28 comments:

Ric in OR said...

So what is wrong with Walmart making a profit?

That they are not a "most favored" company who benefits the legislators who enacted this law, or their cronies.

The real problem is that when you target specific areas by taking from the the 'general' pool, your pet projects all fail.

So why again is education funded from the general fund?

The state budget should work on a couple of levels. Necessary services and I know we may disagree on what is needed (I have roads, police, prisons, but no arts, no cultural) which needs to be funded no matter what. Then the general pool which goes to projects (one time costs like building a new bridge) and to other important areas like mental health care and wildlife management.

I put this issue in the same pile with the state video gambling machines. Remember, to get establishments to buy those machines the state offered a reasonable profit. Then, they saw what the total profit had become and started cutting ...

So ask yourself. Without this program would these green projects have been funded?

Now the important question - why on earth is the state funding them? And how are they more important than prisons or some bi-lingual cultural sensitivity manager?

Scottiebill said...

Buying carbon credits is a great idea. After all, if his Royal lowness, AlGore, can make a fortune on them, there is no reason we commoners can't. Of course, in order to make any money with them, we'd have to buy into the "global warming" bullshit that Gore is preaching about constantly.

Anonymous said...

GLOBAL WARMING IS A LIE. FOLLOW THE MONEY...

Anonymous said...

I'm still waiting for anyone in the "Global-warming-is-a-lie" camp to explain to me why the North Pole ice cap is rapidly vanishing, so much so that oil companies and transport companies are seeing dollar signs (and investing accordingly) because they can drill for oil where they previously couldn't and send their cargo ships straight through the greatest oceanic short-cut on the planet, with the exception maybe of the Panama Canal.

DAVE01 said...

Anon 6:47 PM

Is the North Pole ice cap disappearing? Is the area decreasing or the volume decreasing? If I remember correctly, they only check for area. If the volume is not checked, I would have to say I disbelieve the scare tactics of Al Bore.

I can say that the Polar Bear population is increasing. The enviro nuts are screaming that they are disappearing. That is one lie that has been disproved. I can also tell you that the south pole has been increasing in volume of ice.

I can also tell you that there has been RECORD COLD AND SNOW in the last few years. I can tell you the ocean has cooled off in the last decade. I can tell you that the oceans rising (I think I heard 21 feet by the end of the century) is bullshit.

Six hundred million years ago, the planet was covered in ice. Where did it all go? If I remember correctly, fifty thousand years ago there was an ice age here, maybe Fred Flintstone drove too much back then. I can tell you there has been too much lying from the climate specialists and that is a fact.

I have a problem with Clinton wanting us to give the rest of the world (including china, india and mexico) so we can pay for global warming. What will be done with all this money? It will go into the pockets of thugs and crooks. There is a failed logic in the US giving up tons of money to third world hell holes. None of that money will be used to save the planet which has been around for several billion years.

Anonymous said...

Dave, please read the following words, which are absolutely and incontrovertibly and undeniably true and accurate, with regard to the Northern polar ice cap:

THE ICE IS MELTING.

Now, tell me:

What part of those four words, either individually or collectively, don't you understand?

Scottiebill said...

WOW!!!!

Anon 1039 has really bought into the AlGore crap, hasn't he? If AlGore were to turn around quickly, Anon 1039 would very likely get his neck broken.

DAVE01 said...

Anon 10:39 AM
I understand those four words quite well. Maybe the ice is moving from the north pole to the south pole. As I asked earlier, because I don't know, is the area or volume decreasing? This is a very important question. If the area is decreasing and the volume is increasing, that means we have a GLOBULL problem, not a global warming problem. This planet has been around four or five billion years and we have been monitoring it for a few decades. Ice comes and goes every year.

I want you to answer one other question, what happened to the ice age fifty thousand years ago?

Has anyone studied or knows how much the sun affects the temperature on this planet? Did you know the sun has been very quiet for the last decade or so?

By the way, I'm not a big believer when somebody starts screaming the sky is falling, too many extremists do that all the time. I want facts, not an opinion.

Anonymous said...

Scottiebill: I am not a political supporter of Al Gore. I have not read any of his books. I did not vote him for president. I have never visited his web site. (I am assuming he has a web site.) The only thing I am guilty of is that I did see the film "Inconvenient Truth," which I barely remember.

So listen to me very carefully: I do not rely on Al Gore for ANY information about global warming. Got it? Are we clear? Can we move on now and talk about this without you making assumptions about what I do and don't believe?

Maybe I should ask you: How many assumptions have you made about climate change that are as far off base and TOTALLY WRONG as your assumptions about my "relationship" with Al Gore?

Anonymous said...

The data collectors got caught lying. GLOBAL WARMING IS A LIE. FOLLOW THE MONEY.

again...THE DATA COLLECTORS GOT CAUGHT LYING.


START OVER...THERE IS NO GLOBAL WARMING CAUSED BY HUMANKIND. PERIOD.


EVERY BREATH ANY LIVING BREATING ANMIMAL OR MAN TAKES KILLS THE EARTH...REALLY??? BULL.

GLOBAL WARMING IS A LIE. FOLLOW THE MONEY.

DONT GET CAUGHT LYING AGAIN.


IF YOU FEEL THAT PERSONAL ABOUT IT...WELL, TAKE ONE FOR THE TEAM. STOP BREATHING.

GLOBAL WARMING IS A LIE. PERIOD.DOT.COM. FOLLOW THE MONEY.

DAVE01 said...

1:55 pm
I love this line

IF YOU FEEL THAT PERSONAL ABOUT IT...WELL, TAKE ONE FOR THE TEAM. STOP BREATHING.


That is the best advice I have heard all year for the global warming wing nuts.

Anonymous said...

.有價值的東西,都要付出代價。-..................................................

LW said...

I want facts, not an opinion ...

I think these global warming discussions are the most interesting parts of Dan's Musings blog, so long as people stick to issues.

Dave: Since you seem to be one of the conservative faithful here, I am respectfully skeptical about your dedication to truth and fact, at least as far as its consistent application is concerned. Let me ask you:

When Bush/Cheney went on their "weapons-of-mass-destruction" propaganda campaign, did you believe them? Or did you demand a higher standard of proof?

Did you demand more facts?

Did you seek out new and alternative sources of information, or "minority" opinions, the views of the skeptics?

When such critics at the time who insisted that Bush/Cheney had not made their case were accused of being "anti-American" and supporters of terrorism, did you defend them? Did you argue that it was important that alternative views be heard?

When it became obvious to everyone on the planet that Bush was full of it and that his war had been predicated on illusions and fabrications, did you object?

Were you critical?

Were you angry about having been misled?

Bobkatt said...

Happy New Years blogger buddies.

MAX Redline said...

LW:

On December 16, 1998, Bill Clinton informed the nation that he had ordered military action against Iraq. No less than three times Clinton referred to Iraq's nuclear arms or nuclear program.


Example 1: "Earlier today, I ordered America's armed forces to strike military and security targets in Iraq. They are joined by British forces. Their mission is to attack Iraq's nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons programs and its military capacity to threaten its neighbors."

Example 2: "Saddam Hussein must not be allowed to threaten his neighbors or the world with nuclear arms, poison gas, or biological weapons."

Example 3: "And so we had to act and act now. Let me explain why. First, without a strong inspection system, Iraq would be free to retain and begin to rebuild its chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons programs in months, not years."

When the Clintons went on their "weapons-of-mass-destruction" propaganda campaign, did you believe them? Or did you demand a higher standard of proof?

Scottiebill said...

Anon117: That you are saying that you are not, nor have ever been, a subscriber to the BS that AlGore puts out may or may not be true. But, judging from your postings here, one can only surmise that you are buying into his crap.

LW said...

I'll answer Max's question when Dave responds to mine.

Anonymous said...

It was very interesting for me to read this article. Thank you for it. I like such topics and anything that is connected to this matter. I would like to read a bit more on that blog soon.

psychobob said...

LW, what are you, 8? He is pointing out that it wasn't Boogie Man Bush and his cronies who came up with the thought that Saddam had WMD's. EVERYONE did. And guess what? They DID find some, but the media buried the stories about the chem weapons.

At any rate, this whole line of argument is a giant red herring. The discussion is over whether global temperatures are going up (which according to new data may not be the case), and whether man is the driving cause, if a cause at all. There is very complicated scientific study needed to figure this all out. Unfortunately anyone who does not hold the so called "vast majority" position is ridiculed and black listed. Government has decided the winner and the money has flowed.

As to the ice problem, I don't know about the North Pole, but the ice in the South Pole is growing in area. New sattelite imagery shows it. So is global warming causing a decrease in the North and an increase in the South? That seems unlikely.

LW said...

Your comment is beyond absurd, straying dangerously close to "Alice in Wonderland" territory. "Everyone," in fact, did not think that, and that fact has been thoroughly substantiated in more press reports, independent inquiries and books than I care to count. How about joining the rest of us in the real world and paying attention to what's actually going on in 2010?

LW said...

P.S. If you look at PsychoBob's profile, he says that his location is: "Usually off in my own world." I heartily agree. What color is the sky there, Bob?

psychobob said...

I suppose there were a few Saddam supporters running around who actually believed there were no WMD's. LW, are you still mourning his death, yearning for the good ol' days when Saddam was murdering dissidents and warning he would destroy the West?

Now, how about laying aside the red herring and adressing the points pertaining to the topic? As humorous as your ad hominem attacks are, they do not add to the discussion.

LW said...

You are an idiot and not worth any more of my time. Open your fucking eyes and start paying attention to the world, for Chrissakes.

Anonymous said...

LW, you said:
"When Bush/Cheney went on their "weapons-of-mass-destruction" propaganda campaign, did you believe them? Or did you demand a higher standard of proof?"

Are you saying there were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq?
They used them against the Kurds and the Iranians. Did you believe all of a sudden Saddam became a nice guy? As Max Redline showed you, Clinton said the same stuff. He just neglected to act on it.

Don't forget all the trucks leaving Iraq heading into Syria. What was in them? The current problem with being involved with the UN is that information is leaked or given to our enemies. There are too many unanswered questions involving WMD's. We should never let an enemy know when and why we are attacking them.

I also remember (I didn't keep the article) showing one of Saddam's top nuclear scientists with his backyard dug up with nuclear stuff buried in it. He stated Saddam told him they will restart their nuclear weapons program when the UN sanctions were dropped.

Other reasons we hit Saddam a second time was because they had violated many UN sanctions many times.

Everyone, including the Russians and the Israeli's believed or knew Saddam had WMD's. I would trust the Israeli's intelligence over ours.

Yes, I believed he had WMD's. Yes, they did find WMD's in Iraq. You might want to google WMD's Iraq. What quantity is justifiable to you? One bomb filled with WMDS's, one hundred or one million?

Now answer Max's question.

DAVE01 said...

LW, you said:
"When Bush/Cheney went on their "weapons-of-mass-destruction" propaganda campaign, did you believe them? Or did you demand a higher standard of proof?"

Are you saying there were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq?
They used them against the Kurds and the Iranians. Did you believe all of a sudden Saddam became a nice guy? As Max Redline showed you, Clinton said the same stuff. He just neglected to act on it.

Don't forget all the trucks leaving Iraq heading into Syria. What was in them? The current problem with being involved with the UN is that information is leaked or given to our enemies. There are too many unanswered questions involving WMD's. We should never let an enemy know when and why we are attacking them.

I also remember (I didn't keep the article) showing one of Saddam's top nuclear scientists with his backyard dug up with nuclear stuff buried in it. He stated Saddam told him they will restart their nuclear weapons program when the UN sanctions were dropped.

Other reasons we hit Saddam a second time was because they had violated many UN sanctions many times.

Everyone, including the Russians and the Israeli's believed or knew Saddam had WMD's. I would trust the Israeli's intelligence over ours.

Yes, I believed he had WMD's. Yes, they did find WMD's in Iraq. You might want to google WMD's Iraq. What quantity is justifiable to you? One bomb filled with WMDS's, one hundred or one million?

Now answer Max's question.

Sorry, forgot to put my handle on the above.

LW said...

Dave: I'll respond in day or two, on road now, no time. Thanks for getting back. - LW

DAVE01 said...

Good enough, have a safe drive. Don't talk on the phone now, it's illegal unless it's work related.

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