Tuesday, September 29, 2009

So go home

Pew Hispanic Center Releases Report on Health Insurance of Hispanics by Immigration Status
The Pew Hispanic Center, a project of the Pew Research Center, has released a report on health insurance coverage and access to health care among Hispanics by immigration status. Six-in-ten Hispanic adults in the U.S. who are neither citizens nor legal permanent residents* lack health insurance. In contrast, 28% of Hispanic adults who are citizens or legal permanent residents and 17% of the overall U.S. adult population lack health insurance.

* The Center estimates that 98% of Hispanic immigrants who are neither citizens nor legal permanent residents are undocumented.

In Mexico, health care is guaranteed via Article 4 of the their Constitution. Go home and get it. A poll on illegal aliens and their health care is like a survey of care thieves and auto insurance.

36 comments:

Right Wing Extreme said...

I say forget going back to Mexico to get health insurance, just go back.

Right Wing Extreme said...

p.s. Who care why the illegals leave, as long as they leave.

Anonymous said...

They probably would go home but they are in high demand here in the US. The vast majority are better workers than the lazy and unproductive citizens who complain about them.

I know a guy who is a conservative , is white and owns a business. He says whites that work for him never last. He says they are lazy in general and always want time off. Immigrants from south of the border are far more eager to work. He says they do a great job once they understand what needs to be done. Over all, he says they are far superior to whites.

Those whites who are racist and nativist need to come to terms with their own short comings as workers. It has been that way throughout history when it comes to immigrants performing jobs that keep America going. Next time you see an immigrant, you should kiss his or her feet. They are making your existance here in the United States a whole lot easier.

Anonymous said...

Besides when my friend hires immigrants he can pay them less and since most of them are illegal they can't really complain. He also doesn't have to offer them expensive health care or worry about those pesky safety requirements.
America-what a country.

Anonymous said...

This is more proof that we are having this health care debate because of huge increases in rates becuase of tens of millions of imported not really cheap laborers!

DAVE01 said...

Anon 1:16 Anon
You say they are making the existence a whole lot better of the children they rape and murder? You are some piece of shit asshole. May you or a close family member or a friend experience a better existence like you have foisted on young innocent American children.

This whole health care plan is for the criminal aliens and legal immigrants. No wonder the democrats identify with them so easily, democrats are nothing but a bunch of criminals.

Stevie said...

"In Mexico, health care is guaranteed via Article 4 of the their Constitution. Go home and get it. A poll on illegal aliens and their health care is like a survey of care thieves and auto insurance."

That might make a great bumper sticker Daniel. But as an analogy, it fails miserably.

Car theives provide no economic value to America. Illegal immigrants, on the other hand, do add economic value. You can see this everytime you go to the store, and you're able to pay a reasonable price for your produce. (BTW, do you and your ilk eat produce, Daniel? If so, that makes you a de facto supporter of illegal immigrants. I kinda wonder if you've ever thought of that.)

Despite shrill cries to the contrary, these workers really DO engage in jobs that Americans won't do. But don't believe me...believe the thousands of small businesses who depend on these people for labor.

My favorite example was the guy who owns Wasatch Brewery in Utah. Lars Larson had him on his show one day a couple years ago to ask him about illegal labor. This guy who owned the brewery (I forget his name) told Lars that he would like to be able to hire Americans to work in his brewery, but that they simply don't apply for jobs at this business. He further said that the labor he got from Mexicans (some of whom he acknowledged were probably illegal) was generally harder working and more loyal than the few white workers he could get. He said the Mexicans never called in sick, or played similar types of games that he always had to deal with when hiring white workers.

Of course, arrogant Lars denied that this brewery owner couldn't hire white workers, which you could tell completely perplexed the brewery owner, who knew that Larson was full of shit. And when he basically told Lars that he was full of shit, and that Lars had NO frickin' idea what he was talking about, Lars did what people in his compromised position often do: he simply ignored the evidence he was just presented with, which showed he was wrong, and again repeated his claim. Because we all know that simply repeating a claim, makes it true! (BTW, this was one of the few times that a guest on the Larson show, made Lars look like a complete imbecile. I wish I had a tape of it.)

Daniel, illegal aliens are here because there is an economic need for them. You can either make peace with this fact and figure out a reasonable way to deal with it, or you can continue spitting into the wind.

Stevie said...

Dave01, putting the issues aside for a moment...

Do you have ANY idea how ignorant you appear? Any idea AT ALL?!? First you whip out a red herring. Then you follow it up with a false statement. And you then conclude with an ad hominem attack.

Seriously guy, what are you trying to accomplish here? If you're trying to change minds because you think you bring rational, intelligent discussion to the table, well then...you're failing miserably.

Of course, if you're trying to live up to the stereotype that people like you are uneducated, reactionary, ignorant cretins and buffoons who are best mocked and then ignored, then in that case...you're doing a SPLENDID job!

DAVE01 said...

Stevie, we need to look at all the benefits and drawbacks of criminal aliens. There is a net loss if you look at the whole picture. Employers and politicians want them here for cheap labor and votes and look at only the benefits. I look at the drawbacks. I also use facts. The earlier clown stated that they make our existence here easier. I don't think the dead people would agree with that statement. That is one of the drawbacks. I also look at the loss of wages for Americans, the dumbing down of our schools, the medical costs, the incarceration costs, and all the costs associated with this so called cheap labor. It's cheap for the dishonest employer and the politician. It is not cheap for the American taxpayer. The net is a big loss. If massive legal and illegal immigration is so good for our country, why is CA in the shitter? They are broke because of the massive immigration and handouts. Sooner or later the number of takers will outnumber the number of givers. It has happened in CA and will happen to our country as well. I want to prevent that. For your information, I picked the vegetables thirty years ago. Anyone that says Americans won't do that work is an idiot. Kids now cannot get a job. Did you know that the 16-24 age group has a 53.4% unemployment rate?
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/business/the_dead_end_kids_AnwaWNOGqsXMuIlGONNX1K

How can our kids learn to work without a job? They can't because the criminal aliens have stolen their picking jobs, their odd construction jobs and all the other jobs our kids used to have. Our kids can't even get a job at McDonalds. There are hispanics working at McDonalds who don't speak English. We are letting in people who are illiterate in their own language. How is that a benefit to our country? We are letting in massive people who do not have any idea of basic personal hygiene. That is why our diseases have jumped through the roof.

I just want the people who seem to love the cheap lettuce (where about 6% of the cost is labor, we could double the labor cost and I will pay an extra few cents for that lettuce, not the five dollars some idiot politician stated a few years ago) to also experience what innocent Americans have experienced. That also includes the rapes, murderers and deaths. Most people don't seem to really understand things until they walk in the shoes of people who paid the ultimate price for cheap lettuce. I am trying to prevent that for innocent Americans.

In conclusion, I did not whip out a red herring. What was the false statement? As far as the ad hominem attack, logic or reasoning does not often work with people, they need to walk in the shoes of people who have had family members raped, murdered or killed by criminal aliens that SHOULD HAVE BEEN PREVENTED. Remember, murders, deaths and rapings are part of the criminal alien equation.

Is the above rational and intelligent enough for you. I often lose patience with people that don't use logic and throw names around like racist and nativist. Why don't you attack him for calling names like you did me? By the way, I don't give a fuck what you call me. People are way too sensitive these day.

Right Wing Extreme said...

Stevie,
"Car thieves provide no economic value to America."
Are you seriously saying that? Thieves have a serious impact on any economy. That is why in the economic models, theft is always taken into account. But let's examine car theft specifically. We start with the police dispatcher who will take the call, then the policeman who will respond to the theft call. Then we move to the secretary / customer service representative at the insurance company that will take the call. The claims adjuster who will talk to you about the theft and his secretary who will handle the paperwork and get the check mailed to you. Next the file clerk who will file your insurance paperwork into the archives. Then we have the chop shop that will process the car, often illegals I might add, the trucker that will take the parts to the distribution facility,so that the parts can be laundered, where a shipping/receiving clerk will check them in. The warehouse men will put the parts on shelves or in bins. Then sales people that will take the parts order, the clerks that will file that paperwork, and the accounts payable/receivable person who will send the bill, which is carried by the postal service, which will be two mailmen, and enumerable other postal workers and truckers that carry the mail. Now we have the postal worker, trucker, or UPS/FedEx (for UPS, FedEx or the Postal Service, see the postal service portion previous) guy that physically carries the part to the garage. Now we have the Garage hand that t hat will intake the part and the mechanic that will install it. we will end the cars her. Back to the theft. We are back to the cop that will arrest the car thief, a notoriously stupid lot prone to getting caught no matter what you saw on T.V. now we have the Public Pretender that will represent the idiot in court, the D.A. a judge, 2-3 bailiffs and a court reporter. We also have the jury that is either paid a pittance by the state, or by their work for work not done, which causes overtime, stretched deadlines etc. After he is arrested he will spend time in the county jail, that means jail guards and support staff. If he makes bail, that means a bail bondsman and secretary at the least. After the conviction we have a multitude of prison guards and other support staff. After he gets out there is the parole officer and his secretary. Back to the victim, we have the new car salesman, the sales manager and a secretary. We have the loan officer and a file clerk at a bank somewhere. Back to the dealership you have yet another file clerk and don't forget the make-ready team that will shine the new car and fill it full of gas. Hundreds of people made that car from the mining of the steel to the the truck that will take it to the dealer. We won't go into the production of oil except to say hundreds more people same with the phone company that will handle all of the phone calls, faxes and internet orders. This little sample left out all of the support people that maintain mining equipment, string phone lines etc.The act of stealing car seems simple on the face of it, but like a pebble in a pond, the effects are far reaching. So to the theft of a single car and the effects this act has on the economy. This is why crime is always factored into the economy and any models thereof. What did you skip high school economics. A single person can't even get up in the morning and take a wizz without effecting hundreds of people.

Right Wing Extreme said...

Dave,
"How can our kids learn to work without a job? They can't because the criminal aliens have stolen their picking jobs, their odd construction jobs and all the other jobs our kids used to have."
The pols are also responsible in more ways than the obvious invitation to these invaders to illegally enter our country. How about the fact that in WA kids can only work from like 4 pm to 9 at night, and no more than, I think, 20 hours a week. OR is little different. This makes these employees extremely undesirable to an employer. Last time I managed a kitchen, I would NOT hire a kid to do this easy job, because of the restrictions. When I was 16 I worked full time and went to school full time and graduated with a 3.5 GPA.

DAVE01 said...

RIGHT WING, you are correct of course. The pols also forget to mention if we drove the criminal aliens out, our unemployment would drop like a rock. We could put the welfare people picking the vegetables. This would be beneficial in many ways. First and most important, they would learn to work. If they did not like that work, they could get an education or look for something better. Then again, the pols would not have any problems to fix.

Anonymous said...

You mean these children DAVE?

Stevie said...

Dave01 wote, "Is the above rational and intelligent enough for you."

Well actually Dave, no. In fact, much of it was xenophobic, irrational to an extreme, far from intelligent, and doused with a huge splash of kookiness for good measure.

But it's ok, Dave01. People like you are completely irrelevent to the entire debate, anyway. That's because no rational, sane person would make the mistake of taking you seriously.

Stevie said...

Wow, Right Wing Extreme. You get an A+ in "completely missing the point".

As was crystal clear from my post, my argument was that car thieves do not provide the positive value to the economy that illegal labor does. I did not say, hint or in any other manner imply the completely different argument that car thieves have no effect on the economy.

Did you skip elementary school reading comprehension?

P.S. Please find your carriage return key, and feel free to use it.

MAX Redline said...

Stevie:

What you said was: Car theives provide no economic value to America.

Subsequently, you attempted to modify your position with a mealy-mouthed statement: As was crystal clear from my post, my argument was that car thieves do not provide the positive value to the economy that illegal labor does. I did not say, hint or in any other manner imply the completely different argument that car thieves have no effect on the economy.

You don't get to have it both ways, Stevie. After RWE clearly stated a set of positive economic impacts that car thieves generate - right on down to the chop-shops - you decided to try to make it look as though he was an idiot, and that you didn't really say what you very obviously did say.

As RWE noted, your original statement was erroneous; your attempt to cover up is typical of many of the Leftist persuasion. In opposition to your statement that RWE skipped elementary reading for comprehension, it is abundantly clear that you skipped the part about writing.

You do, however unwittingly, present a cogent argument for opposition to the NEA, as it is apparent that you are a product of their tender mercies.

Right Wing Extreme said...

Sign me up for the Joe Wilson award. Stevie, YOU LIE. It is there for anyone to see what you said. Maybe you have the power to read minds, but I am not so gifted.I can only respond to what you write, not the random, colliding idiocies that pervade the liberal mind. Possibly you missed elementary school vocabulary, but crystal clear means obvious, whereas you wrote one thing, then claimed you wrote anothe, not so obvious. As for using or not using the carriage return, so what, The only reason my writing looks so choppy compared to your is because I have a vocabulary that allows me to write words that contain more than three syllables. Now crime, other than that of entering this country illegally, versus being an illegal, has a much greater economic impact. That is until you put all the crimes committed by illegals into their column, at that point, you are correct, illegals have greater impact.

Anonymous said...

I am sure we can all agree that Americans are lazy and fat and don't want to work hard which is why we are last in the developed world. We need people to do our dirty work. It is just the racists and the xenophobes like to bash those that are doing all the work while they sit on their tukases and benefit from the goods those they hate produce.

As for anon's response to Dave01's children comment: pure pwnage. I bet Dave didn't see that one coming. And by all means at least you have the facts to back it up. Dave on the other hand just regurgitates the tps from racist groups with no facts to back it up. No wonder the rightwing has been sidelined in the political landscape.

DAVE01 said...

ANON 10:55 PM There are pedophiles in all parties. I think the appropriate consequence would be to feed ALL pedophiles to the sharks in the oceans. A lot of people seem to only point out the pedophiles in the repub party. They seem to excuse that crime in the dem party.

You are such a comedian stevie. Xenophobic, that is too funny. Yes, I'm xenophobic against criminals. So are the majority of Oregonians, remember that measure 11 thing? If a person breaks a law, as the criminal aliens have done, I'm xenophobic against them. I guess I'm also a bigot. I have to ask why do you condone such crimes? Why stop at those crimes. Why not simply scrap all criminal laws and then people like me won't be xenophobic. That will solve all the worlds problems. If you are talking about where I mentioned hispanics, I mention them because they are the biggest breakers of our laws. They can simply walk over our border unlike the rest of the planet. In fact, mexicans are 17% of our federal population. I guess that makes me a racist because I mention a FACT! The new rights these days seems to be that you can commit whatever crimes against my country. If somebody calls you out on the crimes you are a xenophobic or a racist or a bigot.
I know I'm a bigot because marion county jail in Oregon, has an illegal population of almost twenty percent. I would have to say that most of us already have our opinion set on how we feel about criminal aliens. I just want to protect my family, friends, community and my country from PREVENTABLE CRIMES. We have enough of our own criminals without importing more. You left wing liberals will only change your mind when you experience one of the drawbacks to criminal aliens. Since you left wing liberals want the cheap lettuce, you should also be the recipients of the drawbacks. You know the little things like rapes and murders. Why do you want the innocent to be raped and murdered so you can have cheap lettuce?

Anonymous said...

You are a bigot and a xenophobe if all you ever do is blame immigrants and hispanics for crimes that are committed by white American citizens on a larger scale.

Julie said...

Interesting that hygiene was mentioned. Finally, I thought I was the only one who noticed the non-english speaking person handing me back my change with filth under their fingernails. With flu season upon us, it is important that employers are aware of their employees appearance as it is obvious that kind of filth is not the result of one skipped handwashing. Americans are lazy? So I assume you would rather a hard working illegal alien prepare your sandwich? Mmmmmm, swine flu, sounds delicious!

DAVE01 said...

anon 8:51 AM
You forgot a word, ILLEGAL. Do you understand the difference? The Marion County jail in Oregon has an illegal population of almost TWENTY PERCENT. Sorry, your information is not true. Mexicans are 17% of our federal prison population. One fucking country supplies seventeen percent of our criminals in our country.

Hell Julie, I don't eat out any more. It seems like they only speak spanish. Those countries south of our border are third world for many reasons. One reason is poor personal hygiene. We have diseases coming back and nobody seems to care. It is just the cost of going business these days. People will only care when it directly affects them.

Anonymous said...

xenophobic fools like deny healthcare to people including illegals so if swineflu gets spread around and your family gets it, don’t come whining

Anonymous said...

anon 10:55
I am one of those lazy Americians you were talking about ! I only work 2 jobs for a total of 70 to 75 hours a week , I have almost allways had 2 jobs ,when I was 14 I was picking berries than going to work cleaning up a woodworking shop. So if you want to call us lazy you have another thiught coming !
What needs to happen is the child labor laws need to be changed to alow the kids these days some room to work . The hours they limit them to is stupid. Also the parents need to wake up and start working with there kids , don't just give them hand outs make them work for some of what they get. they would value it a whole lot more!

Right Wing Extreme said...

AMEN Anon 4:18

Stevie said...

Max Redline, you seem to have your own brand of reading comprehension issues.

Yes, RWE talked about some of the positive effects of car thieves. But he also talked about some of the negative ones. Or did you miss that? And it's relevant that he did so, because it gets to my point that the discussion wasn't about the overall effects of car theft on America. It was about the positive effects of illegal labor versus the positive effects of car thieves. Which was, again, perfectly clear.

Of course, I can completely understand why you might want to obfuscate the issue, and pretend as if you had no idea what I was saying. Doing so is preferable to having to look at the actual issue...an issue backed up by several studies on the matter, suggesting that illegal labor does in fact provide a net positive economic benefit to America. And it's intersting that neither you nor RWE care to apply that same dual, pro/con analysis to illegal labor that was applied to car theft. Because to do so, would be to acknowledge what experts have already demonstrated: that overall, illegal labor is beneficial to the American economy.

In fact, whenever this subject is brought up here, it is routinely ignored and obfuscated. Which is certainly understandable. After all, it puts the lie to one of the most important claims of the anti-immigrant crowd. (A crowd that already suffers from severe credibility problems)

But it's ok, MRL. I understand your frustration. After all, you represent a discredited political philosophy, and I'm sure that the current manifestation of that discredited philosophy troubles you greatly. To be sure, it can't be fun knowing that your ideology has no apparent leader, no apparent direction, and is most often represented these days by people who honestly seem to be one enchilada short of a combination platter, if ya know what I mean. (Dave01 is a brilliant example.)

I detect this frustration in your tone. It's as if you understand that although American politics are somewhat of a pendulum, something is really "different" this time. One gets the sense that conservatism really is dying; the result of an experiment between 2000-2006 that I don't believe Americans will be in much of a hurry to replicate.

But this, too, makes perfect sense. After all, why would anyone trust conservatives with government, when they fundamentally don't believe in it? That's sorta like naming a new NFL Commissioner, who hates football!

Tsk, Tsk, MRL. "I feel your pain."

Stevie said...

Anon 4:18, I find some of what you wrote very curious.

How, EXACTLY, do you think child labor laws need to change? Right now, a child under 15 may work up to 18 hours a week during school season, and up to 40 hours a week during the summer. 16 and 17 year olds can work up to 44 hours per week, anytime of the year…including during school season, and with no restrictions on the actual time of day.

Can you please explain to me EXACTLY what you find unreasonable about this? (I think the term you used was “stupid”.) If I honestly thought these hours were unreasonable, I would say so. But I don’t. So I’m very curious as to why you think these labor laws are “stupid”?

And no offense, but if you have to work 70 to 75 hours per week to make ends meet, I might suggest that you need to upgrade your skill-set and level of education. It is entirely possible to make ends meet in America by working 40-50 hours week…if you are educated and have a marketable skill-set.

And in any regard, your personal situation has no bearing on the observation made by many employers of illegal labor, that such labor tends to be more hard-working and reliable than they can otherwise obtain from legal workers who might otherwise work those same jobs. Why is this so hard for you to accept? Is it because it indicates that there might be at least SOME value in illegal labor, and you simply can’t bring yourself to acknowledge as much? Does the cognitive dissonance of this send your head spinning?

P.S. Watch out for Max Red Line. He seems to be on the war path, looking for examples with which to indict public education. Your post worries me, because I think you may provide MRL with the evidence he seeks!

MAX Redline said...

Yes, Stevie, what you said was perfectly clear: Car theives provide no economic value to America.

Direct quote. Own it. Heck, break out a dictionary, while you're at it - before going off and claiming that others can't read for comprehension. As I noted earlier, you can't even write for comprehension.

Reading for comprehension, I assumed that you meant "thieves" in the above quote. Of course, I might have been wrong. You folks love to change words around. "Illegal alien" becomes "undocumented immigrant", and all that. Or perhaps you should simply consider carefully your own errors before jibing that others should learn how to use a carriage-return key.

RWE took your statement and demonstrated some of the areas in which your statement is patently and demonstrably false. Your response, of course, was to claim that you didn't really say that, and that your actual point was "crystal clear" - after which you launched into an ad-hominem attack, because that's generally what folks like you tend to do. You get caught, you make something up in an effort to cover, and you obfuscate by appending an attack geared toward distracting from the issue by drawing attention to your obviously superior cognitive skills, while denigrating the cognitive skills of others. It's a classic pattern; it never really seems to change.

In your recent comment directed @ me, you simply descend into further ad-hominem diatribe; contributing zero to discussion.

You "detect" things that are not present, and thus, you presume to condescention. It's an amusing thing to watch.

Conservativism, as it happens, seems to be rebounding - at least, according to recent polling data. It appears that a lot of Americans are increasingly dissatisfied with BO, MO, the jetting 18 hours to Copenhagen while preaching about reducing our "carbon footprint". The ACORN connections. And many other things. It's bad when even media begins asking questions and Gibbsy accuses the media of scare-mongering.

Far from being frustrated, Stevie, I'm enjoying watching the wake-up call.

Stevie said...

Wow, MRL…such a long post, and yet you said so little.

Since you continue to dance around the issue (if you’ll recall, there was actually a topic here), I’ll just assume you agree: illegal labor provides a net positive economic benefit for America. (Oh, and notice I said “illegal labor”, just as I mostly have in this entire thread. The only use of “undocumented alien” in this thread appears to be from…you. But don’t let that stop you from making a baseless charge to the contrary.) And if you want to disagree about illegal labor, please do. On this point, the facts are simply not on your side. But I suspect at some level, you’re only too aware of that.

Now, I just GOTTA address your whining about ad hominem attacks. You know, the thing you said “folks like you tend to do.” That’s funny, because being a frequent listener to the Lars Larson and Glenn Beck shows, either one of those guys could change their middle name to “ad hominem”. That either makes them “just like me”, or – more likely – demonstrates that your objectivity is trumped by your partisan blinders. Since I suspect you don’t have a problem with right-wing ad hominem attacks from these guys, it’s easy enough to simply, and legitimately, dismiss this whining from you. And really, the “your shit stinks, but ours doesn’t” line-of-reasoning is…well…not very convincing.

But the most comical, and out-of-touch comment from you was your claim that conservatism is rebounding. Really?!? Were you talking about here on Earth, or the planet you live on? Because on the Earth, the polling data I’ve seen shows that conservatives are struggling mightily: “GOP Less Popular Than Ever, Numerous Polls Show” (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/06/18/gop-less-popular-than-eve_n_217582.html) Or look at the recent polls on pollingreport.com. Their compilation of polling data shows the same thing. You’ll see that, far from rebounding, conservatives are heading ever further into the woods. With no leadership, and no idea what they really stand for, moderates are leaving the GOP in droves, as the bat-shit crazy wing takes over. I mean, seriously…when Sarah Palin becomes a party’s hero, that party should just go ahead and officially declare themselves irrelevant.

Perhaps some of the GOP unpopularity, is due to the inherent intellectual dishonesty we keep seeing from your crowd. Heck, 42% of Republicans still think and claim Obama is foreign born. That just SCREAMS “ignorant!” to most rational Americans. Then we have your assertion that Obama going to Copenhagen, is at odds with his efforts to reduce carbon footprints. Of course, those two things are not mutually exclusive. Your argument logically demands that Obama, in order to reduce carbon footprints, not carry-out any duties that might require use of a plane. Is that realistic to demand? No. Which in turn means it’s a silly and shallow talking point. In other words, standard GOP these days.

Nah, I don’t believe you’re enjoying this for one second. Unless you’re enjoying it in the same way a crazy person might enjoy his insanity. The crazy person just doesn’t know any better. He’s crazy, after all.

Tee hee.

DAVE01 said...

Stevie you said, "42% of Republicans still think and claim Obama is foreign born". There are also democrats and independents that think so too. Philip Berg comes to mind. Pennsylvania's former deputy attorney general and Hillary supporter. If you would keep an open mind and research the issue, you would have doubts about his eligibility too. There are two lines of thought. The first is that he was born in Kenya (when it was a British colony), which means he would be a British subject, thus ineligible to be the US president. The second one is his mother's age at the time of his birth. With the laws of that time, she would have to be nineteen. She was eighteen when he was born. There are also other questions. I will list a few:
1. Why won't he release the vault copy of his BC? A forgery of the Certificate Of Live Birth (COLB) was released on the internet. These are two different things.
2. What passport did he use when he went to Pakistan? I don't believe Americans were allowed to travel to Pakistan at that time.
3. Did he relinquish his US citizenship to attend the muslim Indonesian school? Did he reclaim his US citizenship when he returned to the US?
4. Why are all his records sealed. His school, college and his legislative records have all been sealed.
There are other problems too, I just remember these off the top of my head.

Every fucking record of his been sealed. Why?


Don't forget, Obama had Jack Ryan's sealed divorce records unsealed.

I have followed this for quite some time and I am very curious why the messiah won't simply unseal his records.

I think he won't because he has lied about some things. At best he may simply be ineligible to be president. At wort, he may be an illegal alien. Either of these problems would make all the laws he signs invalid and all his appointments invalid. As a liberal, you don't understand how important it is to follow the laws. We are a nation of laws and nobody is supposed to be above the law. You should not open your mouth until you research the facts. Americans deserve to know the truth. Don't forget McCain showed his records, Obama will not.


Love your link to the huffington post. I had a good laugh at that one.

Anon 4:18 PM, I second that amen. Put the kids back to work. I picked the berries and did grunt work for my father who was a builder. I was working in 100 degree weather and when it was freezing out. It builds character.

Right Wing Extreme said...

Stevie,

You said that a car thief has no effect on the economy. You said it, it is there for all to see, and you should own it. You then retreated to a personal attack and claimed that what you really had said was that car thieves have no "positive" effect on the economy. Again what you said is there for all to see, but I will let that go and address your new assertion. The idea that this hypothetical car thief had no positive impact on the economy is ludicrous. In my original response, look at all the people who got work just from the theft of a single car. My modest little example shows a net positive effect far in excess of the small gross negative effect of the theft itself. I hate to point it out to you, but the redesigned argument that you have so quickly retreated to like the emperor, has no clothes.

Now for my own little ad-hominem attack, and unlike most, it will actually have relevance rather than just being vicious. Stevie, are you stupid or stoned? Either could be the explanation for these idiocies that are spouting from your mouth. You sir, are intellectually dishonest, that is a fancy way of saying I think you are a big fat liar, and lack courage in your convictions. As soon as your arguments are exposed as the idiocies of a sub-standard brain that has had the unfortunate experience of being educated FAR beyond it's abilities, as they patently are, you retreat to the lie that you are so misunderstood and resort to attempting to add intellectual credibility to your indefensible numbskullery by asserting that your postulations are beyond our comprehension and we are to blame for the misunderstanding. We had your number before, and assuredly have it now. You have proven yourself unworthy to be included in the discussions of adults, and should return to the children’s table forthwith until you have grown-up enough make another attempt to join the adults.

MAX Redline said...

Well, Stevie, there you go again.

Illegal labor does not provide a net economic benefit for America. It provides benefit for those who hire them, in the short term. Taking a longer view, it provides a net loss for Americans. This is because they clog our hospital emergency rooms, our schools, and our prisons. These are huge expenses, and explain in large part why so many hospitals in California have gone under. Whether or not you wish to admit it, the societal costs associated with illegal labor result in a net loss for all Americans.

That’s funny, because being a frequent listener to the Lars Larson and Glenn Beck shows, either one of those guys could change their middle name to “ad hominem”. That may be true; I have no basis for refutation nor concurrence on that point, as I don't listen to either (nor to Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Dr. Laura). Whether or not your claim is valid is beside the point; it cannot be used as justification for your own conduct.

Contrary to your statements, Stevie, it is not "whining" to take note of your conduct; it is a statement of fact - and your conduct diminishes any impact that you may wish your argument to convey.

But the most comical, and out-of-touch comment from you was your claim that conservatism is rebounding. Really?!? Were you talking about here on Earth, or the planet you live on?

Well, Stevie, there you go again.

It may surprise you to know that your citation of a HuffPo blurb is approximately of as much value as citing Randi Rhoades. It may also surprise you to find that the latest Pew Research figures show a sudden increase in support for right-to-life among Americans; 14% in the past year alone. Apparently, it would also surprise you to discover that conservativism is not defined by the GOP: a majority of voters who are registered as Independent self-identify as conservative. If that were not the case, then it might occur to you to ponder just how it is that Sarah Palin's forthcoming book has already hit the number one spot at Amazon.com and other retailers. Is that just another "vast, right-wing conspiracy"? Have the unpopular remnants of the GOP somehow hijacked Amazon, Barnes & Noble, and many other high-volume retailers? How do you explain it, given your assertions that conservativism is "heading ever further into the woods" and your implication that Palin is irrelevant?

On BO: Taking several jets to Copenhagen is a waste of fuel, and contrary to your assertion, it is in no way among his presidential "duties" to fly over there in an effort to persuade the Committee to send the 2016 Games to his cronies back in Chicago. Heck, only 47% of Chicagoans themselves are interested in hosting the Games.
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2009/10/02/chicago_olympics/?source=newsletter

News Flash: BO+MO+Oprah = No Olympics in Chi-town: Chicago first to be eliminated from consideration. Houston, The Ego has landed.

My argument was neither silly nor shallow; rather, your reply was. You were so busy trying to make points that it apparently never occurred to you to question whether or not making an 18-hour flight to pitch for the Games is actually among the duties of a President. You just assumed that, somehow, it must be. Therefore, the so-called "carbon footprint" involved is perfectly okay, even though it is in diametric opposition to BO's oft-stated assertions that Americans need to cut back on so-called "greenhouse gas" emissions. That position, Stevie, reflects not merely intellectual dishonesty - it's hypocritical.

Nah, I don’t believe you’re enjoying this for one second. Unless you’re enjoying it in the same way a crazy person might enjoy his insanity. The crazy person just doesn’t know any better. He’s crazy, after all.

It is obvious from your comments that you will believe what you want to believe, and won't let a few inconvenient facts get in the way.

As you've demonstrated, you're all class. Unfortunately, it's all low.

Stevie said...

Dave01, thank you for re-confirming my earlier thoughts about you. Although I do have to admit, I am somewhat glad that people like you are trying to keep the "Obama is a foreign national!" argument alive. Doing so reaffirms exactly why the right-wing is unelectable these days.

RWE, now you've gone and done it! You see, MRL asserted that only people "like me" engage in ad hominem attacks. You will now most certainly upset him, having backed up my argument that "ad hominem" is a favorite tool of the loony right.

But more interesting, is that like MRL, you also don't seem to want to discuss the actual topic. Nah, you'd rather jump and down screaming, "But, but, but, but, but, you said car thieves...". It's as amusing, as it is pathetic. So here too, I'll just assume you agree that illegal aliens provide a net positive benefit to the American economy. There, that was easy, right? (If only we could dispatch with all immigration-related myths this easily.)

Now, about your "adult" comments. It appears that all irony is lost on you, making such comments as you have on a blog where the "Dave01" style posters are the rule, and not the exception, and where the host of the blog can never be bothered to do anything more than throw his rotten eggs and then run as fast as possible in the opposite direction.

Although, you would certainly be excused if you wanted to forget all this, as you cleary seem to want to do in your comment to me. The situation only validates my earlier comments that today's right-wing is lost in a haze of ignorance, having cast aside the William F. Buckley's and Edmund Burke's of the party in favor of the Limbaughs, Palins and Becks.

I suppose that I, too, would be as frustrated as you appear, were I to wake up one day and discover that my ideological foundation was as intellecutally and morally bankrupt as the flimsy one upon which you clumsily stand. It must be painful to realize that your own cast of characters is hard at work, ensure that right-wing irrelevance becomes greater and greater with each passing day. It must be like watching a guy bleeding to death, with no idea whatsoever of how to stop it.

In my best Bill Clinton voice, "I feel your pain, too."

P.S. Yes, you are being mocked. You know, in case you were wondering.

Right Wing Extreme said...

Stevie,
I am at work so I will make this short and sweet. Everyone engages in personal attacks to discredit intellectual arguments. In the case of the one I presented for you it is not so much personal as your stupidity or illicit marijuana use would explain your stupidity. It is not so much an attack on your intellectual ideas, so much as the sub-standard intellect spouting such ideas a a possible explanation. It was not quite ad hominem, but it was closely related. I was addressing the analogy you put forth to support your argument. Rather than attack an idea in and of itself, like bringing down a building I was showing that your idea had a weak foundation. I will grant that we both went down an intellectual by-way, but that does not invalidate my disputation of your supporting argument. As for the shaky foundation of my belief structure, well you are very much mistaken. I am not a Republican but an independent conservative. I will grant that the Republican party does seem to be losing it's way, but no more so than the Democrat party. Both have become weighty and unwieldy, and seem to be confused about the correct way forward. As for me being lost in a haze of ignorance, well possible, but so far you have been one of the few to not only be lost, but drowning in ignorance of your own. You feel your way forward with your bleeding heart as a guide, regardless of where it might take you or the danger to yourself or your nation. As I said, you act and argue as a child and are not fit to sit in on the councils of adults. The real unfortunate part is that so many of your lib compateriots seem to do the same, and while they have the power currently, the seem intent on dragging us under with them.

Anonymous said...

steve anon 4;18 here
whne I was 14 I was working 30 t0 35 hours a week even whwn in school. was I the greatest student , no , but it did not matter if i was working or not I was a C student. Yes the limits are stupid ( my words ) they should have at least 30 hours for the 14 year olds . agree or not , it's up to you. For me woring 2 jobs, my first job pays around 80k a yera. My second job is worth about 15 k a year. The second job pays for my childs privete school, and vacations. I think I do ok providing for my family . So we will agree to dis agree than.
By the way if you are here illegally go hme! ( not that you yourself are )

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