Saturday, December 22, 2007

No sales tax

No I would not trade a reduction in the state income tax for the addition of a sales tax. Here is why:

The money gets taxed when I earn it and then it gets taxed when I spend it. If only they could figure out how to tax it while it's in my checking account the circle would be complete.

There would have to be a brand new "State of Oregon building for the Implementation and Collection of the Sales Tax" created. It would be filled with PERS recipients with job titles like "Sales Tax Cultural Competency Coordinator" and "Sales Tax diversity Manager." This grows government. Now if the proposal is "revenue neutral" meaning that the state would collect the same that they do under the current plan we will simply get less service because they will be spending more on state payroll.

It would be like switching from one 40-hour a week job to two 20-hour a week jobs at the same salary. You are worse off because you now have increased commute time and generally made things more complicated.

Next I would like to point out that the proposal to lower the income tax but add a sales tax operates from a position of weakness. It says that government isn't too big. It pretends that the government has multiple revenue streams when there is really only one source of money: US!

If we have identified a tax that is too high, like the income tax, then let's float a proposal to lower it. Why would a conservative pair that up with a proposal to raise another tax? To make sure that public art doesn't take a hit? To keep the needle exchange programs running on weekends? To make sure that we can hire more Art Therapists?

Government doesn't need more money and it doesn't need the same amount it is getting now, it needs LESS. If you need any evidence of this just look at my "50 cuts" posts.

56 comments:

Eli Barnhardt said...

Holy Spiked Eggnog Batman! I agree with Daniel!

Except here's my wet dream: Abolish property taxes (or reduce by HALF) and replace with a sales tax.

Anonymous said...

Tancredo Withdrawals from Race, Endorses Romney
CBS News, NY - Dec 20, 2007
Tom Tancredo pulled his hat from the Republican race for president and announced his endorsement of Mitt Romney in Des Moines today. ...
you heard the news here first we heard it yesterday early

Anonymous said...

Mitt "I can hardly wait till I get my own panet" Romney?

Anonymous said...

I wonder if Bruce the Barber will be joining the Latino gang when he gets to prison.

Anonymous said...

Daniel - you assume that if one illegal immigrant is arrested for some violent or heinous crime or for drug dealing, then we must infer that all illegal immigrants do those things, right?

By that same logic, I guess we'll have to assume that because one member of OFIR was arrested for child molestation and pornography, then all OFIR-ers are child molestors, right?

Anonymous said...

Deuteronomy 26:6-9 "But the Egyptians mistreated us and made us suffer, putting us to hard labor. Then we cried out to the LORD, the God of our fathers, and the LORD heard our voice and saw our misery, toil and oppression. So the LORD brought us out of Egypt with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm, with great terror and with miraculous signs and wonders. He brought us to this place and gave us this land, a land flowing with milk and honey."

Anonymous said...

Job 5:8-16 "But if it were I, I would appeal to God; I would lay my cause before him. He performs wonders that cannot be fathomed, miracles that cannot be counted. He bestows rain on the earth; he sends water upon the countryside. The lowly he sets on high, and those who mourn are lifted to safety. He thwarts the plans of the crafty, so that their hands achieve no success. He catches the wise in their craftiness, and the schemes of the wily are swept away. Darkness comes upon them in the daytime; at noon they grope as in the night. He saves the needy from the sword in their mouth; he saves them from the clutches of the powerful. So the poor have hope, and injustice shuts its mouth."

Anonymous said...

Job 34:17-19 "Can he who hates justice govern? Will you condemn the just and mighty One?
Is he not the One who says to kings, 'You are worthless,' and to nobles, 'You are wicked,' who shows no partiality to princes and does not favor the rich over the poor, for they are all the work of his hands?”

Anonymous said...

Psalm 10:14 “But you, O God, do see trouble and grief; you consider it to take it in hand. The victim commits himself to you; you are the helper of the fatherless.”

Anonymous said...

Psalm 12:5 “‘Because of the oppression of the weak and the groaning of the needy, I will now arise,’ says the LORD. I will protect them from those who malign them."

Anonymous said...

Psalm 140:12 “I know that the LORD secures justice for the poor and upholds the cause of the needy.”

Anonymous said...

Isaiah 25:4 “You have been a refuge for the poor, a refuge for the needy in his distress, a shelter from the storm and a shade from the heat. For the breath of the ruthless is like a storm driving against a wall.”

Anonymous said...

Isaiah 41:17 “The poor and needy search for water, but there is none; tongues are parched with thirst. But I the LORD will answer them; I, the God of Israel, will not forsake them.”

Anonymous said...

Jeremiah 9:23-24 “This is what the LORD says: ‘Let not the wise man boast of his wisdom or the strong man boast of his strength or the rich man boast of his riches, but let him who boasts boast about this: that he understands and knows me, that I am the LORD, who exercises kindness, justice and righteousness on earth, for in these I delight,’ declares the LORD.”

Anonymous said...

Amos 5:24 “But let justice roll on like a river, righteousness like a never-failing stream!”

Anonymous said...

Luke 1:52-53 “He has brought down rulers from their thrones but has lifted up the humble.
He has filled the hungry with good things but has sent the rich away empty.”

Anonymous said...

Luke 4:16-21 “He went to Nazareth, where he had been brought up, and on the Sabbath day he went into the synagogue, as was his custom. And he stood up to read. The scroll of the prophet Isaiah was handed to him. Unrolling it, he found the place where it is written: ‘The Spirit of the Lord is on me, because he has anointed me to preach good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind, to release the oppressed, to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor.’ Then he rolled up the scroll, gave it back to the attendant and sat down. The eyes of everyone in the synagogue were fastened on him, and he began by saying to them, ‘Today this scripture is fulfilled in your hearing.’"

Anonymous said...

Luke 6:20-21 “Blessed are you who are poor, for yours in the kingdom of God. Blessed are you who hunger now, for you shall be satisfied. Blessed are you who weep now, for you shall laugh.”

Anonymous said...

Deuteronomy 15:7 “If there is a poor man among your brothers in any of the towns of the land that the LORD your God is giving you, do not be hardhearted or tightfisted toward your poor brother.”

Anonymous said...

Deuteronomy 26:12 “When you have finished setting aside a tenth of all your produce in the third year, the year of the tithe, you shall give it to the Levite, the alien, the fatherless and the widow, so that they may eat in your towns and be satisfied.”

Anonymous said...

Leviticus 19:9-10 “'When you reap the harvest of your land, do not reap to the very edges of your field or gather the gleanings of your harvest. Do not go over your vineyard a second time or pick up the grapes that have fallen. Leave them for the poor and the alien. I am the LORD your God.”

Anonymous said...

Proverbs 31:8 “Speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves, for the rights of all who are destitute.”

Anonymous said...

Isaiah 1:16-17 “Wash and make yourselves clean. Take your evil deeds out of my sight! Stop doing wrong, learn to do right! Seek justice, encourage the oppressed. Defend the cause of the fatherless, plead the case of the widow.”

Anonymous said...

Isaiah 58:6 “Is not this the kind of fasting I have chosen: to loose the chains of injustice and untie the cords of the yoke, to set the oppressed free and break every yoke? Is it not to share your food with the hungry and to provide the poor wanderer with shelter— when you see the naked, to clothe him, and not to turn away from your own flesh and blood?”

Anonymous said...

Jeremiah 22:3 “This is what the LORD says: Do what is just and right. Rescue from the hand of his oppressor the one who has been robbed. Do no wrong or violence to the alien, the fatherless or the widow, and do not shed innocent blood in this place.”

Anonymous said...

Jeremiah 22:13-17 "Woe to him who builds his palace by unrighteousness, his upper rooms by injustice, making his countrymen work for nothing, not paying them for their labor. He says, ‘I will build myself a great palace with spacious upper rooms.’ So he makes large windows in it, panels it with cedar and decorates it in red. Does it make you a king to have more and more cedar? Did not your father have food and drink? He did what was right and just, so all went well with him. He defended the cause of the poor and needy, and so all went well. Is that not what it means to know me?’ declares the LORD. But your eyes and your heart are set only on dishonest gain, on shedding innocent blood and on oppression and extortion."

Anonymous said...

Matthew 5:42 “Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.”

Anonymous said...

Luke 3:11 “John answered, ‘the man with two tunics should share with him who has none, and the one who has food should do the same.’"

Anonymous said...

Luke 12:33 "Sell your possessions and give to the poor. Provide purses for yourselves that will not wear out, a treasure in heaven that will not be exhausted, where no thief comes near and no moth destroys."

Anonymous said...

2 Corinthians 9:6-9 “Remember this: Whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows generously will also reap generously. Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that in all things at all times, having all that you need, you will abound in every good work. As it is written: ‘He has scattered abroad his gifts to the poor; his righteousness endures forever.’"

Anonymous said...

Deuteronomy 15:10 “Give generously to him and do so without a grudging heart; then because of this the LORD your God will bless you in all your work and in everything you put your hand to.”

Anonymous said...

Psalm 41:1 “Blessed is he who has regard for the weak; the LORD delivers him in times of trouble.”

Anonymous said...

Proverbs 19:17 “He who is kind to the poor lends to the LORD, and he will reward him for what he has done.”

Anonymous said...

Proverbs 22:9 “A generous man will himself be blessed, for he shares his food with the poor.”

Anonymous said...

Exodus 22:21-27 “Do not mistreat an alien or oppress him, for you were aliens in Egypt. Do not take advantage of a widow or an orphan. If you do and they cry out to me, I will certainly hear their cry. My anger will be aroused, and I will kill you with the sword; your wives will become widows and your children fatherless. If you lend money to one of my people among you who is needy, do not be like a moneylender; charge him no interest. If you take your neighbor's cloak as a pledge, return it to him by sunset, because his cloak is the only covering he has for his body. What else will he sleep in? When he cries out to me, I will hear, for I am compassionate.”

Anonymous said...

Proverbs 14:31 “He who oppresses the poor shows contempt for their Maker, but whoever is kind to the needy honors God.”

Anonymous said...

Luke 16:19-25 "There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores and longing to eat what fell from the rich man's table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores. The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried. In hell, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.' But Abraham replied, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony.'"

Anonymous said...

1 John 3:17 “If anyone has material possessions and sees his brother in need but has no pity on him, how can the love of God be in him?”

Anonymous said...

Leviticus 19:15 "Do not pervert justice; do not show partiality to the poor or favoritism to the great, but judge your neighbor fairly."

Anonymous said...

1 Timothy 6:10 “For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.”

Anonymous said...

Collapse comments

Daniel said...
No habla the espanol Bruce? I'm sure that in the name of tolerance you will provide translations for our citizenship-challenged people.

Congrats on the site!

9:00 PM

Anonymous said...

Daniel - did bruce ever contribute to your "tip jar"?

If so, you may want to send that money back...for your image...and for his legal defense.

Anonymous said...

3 Miglavia 5:5:2006 - And thus it was that Bruce one day declared: "I WANT THESE FUCKING GREASY WETBACKS OUT OF MY COUNTRY and any other taco-bending motherfuckin' hispanic that sympathizes with them." So Daniel Miglavs, enraged and embarrassed by the psychopathic rantings of an unapolegetic racist, called to Bruce and gently said: "Your angry words and name calling aren't helping."

DANEgerus said...

Theoretically a sales tax allows you to earn interest on your savings and only pay taxes on your consumption.

But without an elimination of the income tax it would be suicide as the government would simply whine their way into convincing the Portland Socialists to stuff the ballot box towards increasing our income taxes... again.

Anonymous said...

By that same logic ...

Anon 3:11, I'm sorry, you have entered Miglavia. Logic does not apply here.

OregonGuy said...

Good post.

Er...by the way, what is with anonymous?

Lefties can't get enough of our cash. Do you realize that following the Second World War our state had a surplus in the treasury? And, they didn't spend it.

Oh, for the good old days. When government contented itself with providing essential services.

Anonymous said...

Holy Spiked Eggnog Batman! I agree with Daniel!

Eli, that's possibly because on this question, EVERYONE agrees with Daniel: No serious, sane person ANYWHERE in Oregon wants to have a sales tax in exchange for a "reduction" of the income tax. Few things in politics are certain, but seriously, that will NEVER happen. In the Miglavian arsenal of debate tactics, this is known as a straw man argument. It is generally understood here in Orygun that the only POSSIBLE way we'll ever get a sales tax is if they completely get rid of, permanently, the income tax. Abolish it. [And even then, you'd be in for a very tough political fight to get people to vote for it.] Frankly, I'm surprised Daniel doesn't seem to know that.

Scratch that. LOL. Never mind, I'm not surprised.

mitch said...

Newsflash for Oregonguy: People bitched about government in the "good old days" too, my friend. The more things change, the more they stay the same ...

Anonymous said...

The legislature is willing to freeze a sales tax rate into the Constitution that would require a vote of the people to change it. They promise a reduction in income tax rates and/or property taxes - not in the Constitution, just a promise from our double talking politicians. Just trust them.

I think NOT!

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Tim said...

Amen! The only way I'd go for a sales tax would be to abolish the State Income tax. We know that Government GREED will not allow that to happen. Schools could get 100% of taxes collected and still WHINE about being underfunded. Let's face it the more money Government gets the more it grows and the bigger it grows the more money it needs to confiscate to feed the greed. As Government grows, Freedom shrinks.

Anonymous said...

Illegal Alien posing as a cop deported.

http://www6.comcast.net/news/articles/national/2007/12/23/Officer.Identity/

Anonymous said...

what a lousy string of posts

Daniel said...

Wow.

Anonymous said...

Daniel - what? Are you also astonished that so many people, in this day and age, actually believe the virgin birth really happened?

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