It is funny to watch folks try to defend drivers licenses for illegal aliens. (ssssshhhhh, don't call them illegal aliens, call them "immigrants") If you also want to watch the friends of illegal aliens tie themselves in knots trying not to say the word "illegal" no matter what check out CAUSA's new video:
One guy actually says "illegal" and then corrects himself and says "undocumented." This is the same guy who insists that an ITIN is "issued by a federal agency that does security checks" and could be used to ID folks to get a driving priviledge card.
From the IRS:
Are ITINs valid for identification?
No. ITINs are not valid identification outside the tax system. Since ITINs are strictly for tax processing, IRS does not apply the same standards as agencies that provide genuine identity certification.
I know it's hard to believe that folks would lie to protect criminals but there you go...
32 comments:
Cool video. Regardless of what you think about "undocumented", "illegal" or your hate name of choice before the word "immigrant", the video makes a great point. People not being ID'd without drivers licenses is a worse situation than we have now. As a Conservative who has family that travels the highways, I want these people to be ID'd any way possible. Kudos to Cuasa for pointing that out.
Anon 9:46, So using stolen or forged papers to get an OR. License (U.S Gov't does not issue any ID to Illegal aliens)satisfies you that that is really that person?
Example; Employer at Gun show in Albany signing #112, "prospective employee had a S.S.# from a dead person, said he got it in L.A."
And why is correct word Illegal a Hate name?
Just curious.
... it's hard to believe that folks would lie to protect criminals ...
I would have thought watching the Bush administration for the last seven and a half years would have acclimated you to that by now. What rock have you been living under?
rick,
That is what they will be doing if you deny drivers licenses to them. The desire for ID will shoot sky high if people like you have your way. You need to wake up and quit letting the hatred blind you. in short, your example doesn't hold water to the issue people driving without licenses.
When hatred, rhetoric and foolishness trumps public safety, there is a real problem. I can't speak for anonymous 9:46, but I left the Republican Party over the clear racism, scapgoating and hatred for the people from south of the border. Being of spanish decent myself, I would never align myself with anyone that doesn't use their head when public safety is at stake.
So for anon 9:46 & 11:37, you would rather see illegals handed a reason(license) to continue to break the law? amazing...whats wrong with you people. Your comments 11:37 about us being blinded by hate is just your feeble attempt that all libs make. It just shows how poorly you feel about your country and your state.
By not issuing a license to all DRIVERS regardless of status, you create a thriving black market for fake ones. the only thing is --fake ones don't require proof of insurance to acquire. Wow. Smart.
Look, if you don't want illegals to have a license because of their supposed "eagerness" to vote, then issue illegals a license that is a different color, or clearly states, "not to be used for federal identification."
I'm not "advocating" for them, they are here illegally, which is a crime. BUT, it is a crime that has aiders and abetters no less than our own Federal gov't and corporate America. They're here, they're driving (with or without a license), and from the looks of things, they're going to be here in large numbers for at least the next couple of years.
At least during that time, can't we have a way to document them and insure them. Sure, many of them let their insurance lapse, but many of them don't. At least SOME of them are insured PART of the time. Better than nothing.
Another thing is that you could have a tracking system that alerts local authorities when insurance has been allowed to lapse. I don't know why Oregon doesn't do this, most states do.
Daniel,
Great video! I’ve never seen so much tortured logic. The fact is these people are here illegally, which means they are working illegally and driving illegally. The last time I looked at a dictionary the work illegal meant unlawful. Giving them drivers licenses isn’t going to document who they are because the DMV doesn’t require any proof of identification for these people.
It is really humorous that the criminal-alien-lovers can only defend the illegals by calling others “haters’ or “racist”. This action proves they cannot defend their position on merit. I’ve said for years, racism in America isn’t a problem, it’s an industry.
First Paragraph - I meant "word" not "work"
Look, the basic problem is that the people fighting for drivers license actually believe that the American people are so stupid that they buy this "its about safety" argument, which is patently absurd. If you want safety, try border enforcement, try deportation.
Here is a perfect example - "Look, if you don't want illegals to have a license because of their supposed "eagerness" to vote, then issue illegals a license that is a different color, or clearly states, "not to be used for federal identification.""
Nice try. Of course all of us are so stupid we have somehow forgotten about motor voter. Whatever you color the license, if its at DMV, you are required to offer that person voter registration.
Its simply too much to ask anyone to believe, "Oh yeah, granting illegals drivers licenses is all about safety, so we know who these people are....but oh no, you can not ask for ID at a poll, because that is going to suppress the vote because our constituents are too stupid to have ID'
Give me a break, no one be believes this bilge water about safety from the "open borders no ID at polls crowd". Its about registering illegal voters, that's why drivers licenses for illegals is going no where.
Drivers licenses were never to be used as federal id, neither was the social security number. Only a passport, green card or visa is an id to be used for proof of being a citizen or for being in the country legally.
The drivers license is to do one thing, prove that a person is eligible to drive, tested etc. At the most, it is a piece of safety equipment. So by that, why do you folks feel that denying license access is going to solve some problem. From my view it is going to create problems in the form of more people without licenses driving on the road and like anon pointed out, a market for identity theives.
Question: Do you actually think that the people in the country here illegally are going to go back to where they came from because they can't get a drivers license? So if not, what about the issue of public safety that the video raises? No one has even addressed that. Most of the people hear can't get pass the word illegal. Sad really.
"...people hear (sic) can't get pass the word illegal"
Can I choose which laws I want to obey?
in North Dakota, I had to show a birth certificate to get a drivers license.
a drivers license does not make you "safe", it just signifies that you have met all of the qualifications for the privilege of driving, with emphasis on the word "privilege".
It is quite humorous however that these people who are here ILLEGALLY are constantly trying to convince us to change our laws to ignore that fact.
they commented that they have more than 9000 signatures... I wonder how many if any Bill Bradbury will pass?
Can I choose which laws I want to obey?
Are you George W. Bush?
His administration didn't obey the law requiring the preservation of records regarding senior administration officials.
If it's "all about the law" why aren't the OFIR Crying Outlouders calling for Bush to be impeached?
anon 3:09 said:
Can I choose which laws I want to obey?
Are you George W. Bush?
Show me an administration / congress that has obey said law.
Jack Van Nostrand
Troutdale, Ore.
Jack,
This administration has admitted that it broke this law.
What evidence do you have that previous administrations broke this law?
Still waiting on evidence of massive voting by illegals. Any documented instances? Anyone?
take away the "goodies" and the ants will leave the picnic.....DUH. No illegal alien has any rights to any benefits actual legal citizens or residents enjoy....period.
Oregon voter turnout third highest in U.S.
State's turnout has remained steady for nearly 50 years
By James Sinks / The Bulletin
Published: October 17. 2006 5:00AM PST
SALEM - When it comes to concerns about voter turnout, the rhetoric does not always match the reality - at least in Oregon.
Today is the deadline to register to vote in the Nov. 7 general election, in which Oregonians will pick their next governor and decide the fate of several sweeping ballot measures.
So now, with the registration phase nearly completed, it's time for hands to start wringing anew about how to convince those people who are registered to actually cast ballots, which go in the mail starting Friday.
From Oregon senior centers to college campuses and even to cell phones, activists and elections officials are gearing up mobilization efforts to energize what is often called an apathetic electorate.
"A lot of people just don't vote, even though it's awfully easy to do so in Oregon," said Harry Lonsdale, of Sisters, the founder of Bend Research and one of the primary financiers for a ballot campaign effort to cap political contributions.
Cell phone reminders
Oregon is one of the first states in the country to send text messages to cell phones, reminding people to cast their ballots. The program is funded through a grant from the Help Americans Vote Act and is geared at getting more young people to vote.
It's free. To sign up, text message the word "vote" to the number: 81530.
He suspects turnout is falling because people feel disconnected from the political system, or that their votes don't count because of the undue influence of big political donors.
Every two years, we hear how more voters are disengaging from politics. But is that true?
Statistics suggest the problem is not as bad as advertised.
State and federal figures show Oregon voters have remained engaged, at least when it comes to participation in November elections.
Oregon ranked as the nation's third-highest state in terms of voter turnout in the 2004 general election, according to a U.S. Census analysis of people who are old enough to vote.
Meanwhile, voter turnouts in the state - measured as the percentage of those people who are registered and actually vote - have remained relatively steady since the 1960s, according to Oregon Elections Division data.
The turnout in presidential elections has been close to 80 percent, and the turnout in off-year gubernatorial elections has been close to 70 percent.
In the 2004 election, a presidential year, 86.5 percent of registered Oregon voters cast ballots.
The biggest drop-off in the past 40 years occurred in 1998, when just 59 percent of those registered cast ballots.
But that was partly a function of a lack of interest in the governor's race, in which incumbent Gov. John Kitzhaber was widely expected to defeat Republican Bill Sizemore - and did.
But by the next gubernatorial election in 2002, the turnout was 69 percent - near its average for the past four decades.
"It is a myth," said Michael McDonald, a political science professor at George Mason University in Fairfax, Va., and the co-author of an analysis that debunks the oft-recited fears of falling voter turnouts.
Boosting voter turnout
The faulty statistics that have created the impressions of lower voter interest were not manufactured intentionally, McDonald said.
In many places nationwide, people who are ineligible to vote - either because they are felons or not citizens - were mistakenly included in the pool of adults.
As a result, it exaggerated the number of people who were opting to not vote by lumping them together with those who legally could not, he said.
The reworked numbers show that voter interest has ebbed and flowed based on the interest in the election - the 2004 presidential race proved to be a barnburner on both sides of the aisle, he said.
His findings "slayed sacred cows" in both major parties, he said, and particularly rankled advocates of campaign finance reform because they "cite the decline as a result of the evil influence of money in politics."
Secretary of State Bill Bradbury, the state's chief elections officer, agrees that many people have the wrong impression about voter turnouts.
Nationally, the numbers may be disappointing, but Oregon stands out - and the state is winning kudos for its outreach efforts, he said.
"We don't just want to say we're happy that we were third-highest in the last presidential election and not do anything," he said. "We want to do anything we can to encourage people to participate and vote."
In an attempt to get more young people to cast ballots, the state this year launched a program in cooperation with a Portland radio station that will send text message reminders to cell phones.
As of Friday - which marked the end of the first week - 118 people had signed up for the cell phone notifications, according to the Secretary of State's Office.
The service is free and aimed at young people, who remain the least likely demographic to vote, but people need to sign up.
The first of three reminders has already gone out, telling folks to remember to register by today. The next one will remind people to vote after ballots have been shipped, and the final one will be on Election Day.
The state also this year set up special private phones at all 36 county elections offices, where people who are blind or otherwise unable to mark their own ballots can make their choices orally. At the end of the call, a paper ballot is then faxed to that elections office for confirmation.
At a test run of the program during the May primary, a blind woman in Lane County was elated about completing her own ballot without having somebody else mark it, Bradbury said.
"She said it was the first time she'd ever voted independently," he said. "That makes the whole thing worth it, because there are a fair number of people who do not have the same independence we take for granted. It inspires me."
Bradbury has experience firsthand with a disability. He has multiple sclerosis, a degenerative bone disorder.
Both of the new outreach programs are funded with grants through the Help Americans Vote Act.
Low-interest primaries
Bradbury credits the ease of Oregon's decade-old vote-by-mail system and sophisticated "get-out-the-vote" efforts for helping to convince more people to send in ballots.
That is not to say all is rosy, however.
If you're looking at May primary elections, in which partisan voters get to decide their nominees for the general election, then turnout is certainly down. A paltry 38 percent of voters cast ballots in the May 2006 primary.
The low figure can be partly explained because nonaffiliated voters are barred in Oregon from the biggest decisions on the primary ballot: Who should be the major party nominees, Bradbury said.
In terms of percentages, nonaffiliated voters are half as likely as partisans to vote in primaries, he said.
Portland pollster Tim Hibbits said the declining turnout in primaries is bad for democracy because it focuses the influence of the most partisan people, who do vote and ultimately set the slate for the November general election.
A ballot initiative was filed this summer that would have opened the partisan primaries so all voters could participate in the nomination process, but it fell short of the necessary signatures.
Bradbury, a Democrat, said he saw potential problems with that approach, but still would like to see more voters cast ballots in primaries.
Lonsdale said he is not swayed by the figures that suggest voters are staying engaged in politics.
As he collected 400 signatures on petitions for the campaign finance reform proposals he is promoting, measures 46 and 47, he heard a constant drumbeat that people are upset about government and tuning it out, he said.
Illegals voting
Another issue that has been raised this fall is the specter of voting by illegal immigrants. Republican gubernatorial candidate Ron Saxton alleges that illegal aliens are voting in a television commercial that began airing earlier this month.
But there is "no evidence whatsoever" of any illegal immigrants voting in Oregon, said Mary Conley, a spokeswoman for the Secretary of State's Office.
There have been two cases in recent years in which non-U.S. citizens were caught trying to vote - but both of them were in the country legally. One was from Britain, the other from Vietnam, he said.
Felix Schein, Saxton's campaign manager, said Saxton does not have any evidence of illegals voting, but said that might be because the state has done little in the way of investigating such allegations.
"I have yet to hear a compelling argument from the secretary of state or governor that it is impossible or even difficult to register to vote illegally, whether by illegal immigrants or somebody else," he said.
A new study by the U.S. Elections Commission has found little evidence of election fraud, according to a story last week in USA Today.
George Mason professor McDonald said it's dishonest of politicians to try to fan controversies by alleging widespread voting by illegal aliens.
"What a stupid thing to do if you want to remain anonymous," he said. "We find some limited instances of people double voting or voting illegally or voting for dead spouses, but it's very, very rare."
James Sinks can be reached at 503-566-2839 or at jsinks@bendbulletin.com.
Felons aren't allowed to vote but they get drivers licenses so they are automatically registered to vote. Is there massive Felon voting going on? Who is monitoring that? Daniel?
"Jack,
This administration has admitted that it broke this law.
What evidence do you have that previous administrations broke this law?"
"uh, geee, Lemme see, now where are those silly Rose Law firm billing records they have been under subpoena forever, hmm, let me see.... its been two years now and I still cant find the darn things.... of wait! here they are, on this cute little end table in the White House map room.......gosh, now isn't that funny.... oh well, better really really late than never I guess"
Then of course there is always the little matter of hiding for years who the hell was on the Health Care task force. Kinda lost the records on that one as well, or rather, refused to turn them over as required by the "sunshine law"
It was only a few FBI files.....no....wait... it was more like a couple of hundred....no wait wait, I'm sorry it looks like it was more like 1,000. Yes yes I know Senator.... Chuck Colson did time for having just one FBI file during the whole Watergate thing, but I'm Hillary, it was just all a big goof up..... Craig Livingstone was the one who requested them anyway, not me......What's that Senator? Who Hired Craig Livingstone? .... Why I have no idea, I mean I'm Hillary I forget a lot of things and strangely, we have no record of who hired him or who he actually worked for at the White House"
So that's three right off the top o' my head.
Weird, Democrats sure werent sticklers for the law or all worked up about civilian deaths in a war when Clinton was running loose. Well, times sure do change dont they?
I think it is more likely for a Republican to molest a child or fund a terrorist group than an undocumented immigrant to vote in a state election.
Yes....when the IDs and DLs are made illegal, the demand for fake ID/DLs will go sky high....if the politicians allow our mighty and honorable police do thier work, the illegal dogs will be branded the felons that they all are...we must felonize them, pig after pig, cow after cow, village after village....and what do you call it when the assasin acuses the assasin...a lie, and we must merciful to those that lie.....see my video here of what we must do...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHjWDCX1Bdw
And BTW, thank you Daniel for having THE WILL to do what we all secretly wish we had the nerve to do....THE WILL....
God Bless and Good Night
I wish that we were the flying Cav surfers, Daniel was our Kilgore (I am Kurtz of course) and Sam Adams was Martin Sheen, (before he went gay, before the divorce with the wife he hardly said a word to)...the cong are all the illegals ...at a farm in Boring/Estacada....yeah............CHARLIE DON'T SURF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Col. Kurtz, huh? Man, looks like he got some bad reefer or some bad hooch at mama sans while he was in NAM, or was it MOM. With loons like this living a movie fantasy of a twisted retarded popcorn kernal on the side of OFIR rejects, the undocs clearly have nothing to worry about. I wonder if groups like casa and others are keeping track of the twits that post over here. Bruce Benkle, Kurtz the Nutty Kernel, Daniel Methhead Miglavs, R "S&M" Huse, Rick "I hate the Statue of Liberty" Hicky. Wow, what a crew.
I would tend to imagine they are compiling such lists. Compiling lists of people whose political opinion you don't agree with is much heralded tradition of the left. It always has seemed a little fascistic to me, to think it good to have groups making lists of people just because of their political opinion, but then again, if you are comfortable with that, to each their own.
Btw - That's Causa by the way, not casa.
Get pulled over by Police, No License = Deportation!
After #112 passes Police will be allowed to ask immigration status and with no License, justifiable cause to do so.
No one else read Newspaper stories of Illegals "Afraid to go to work..." because they do not have a License anymore.
HEY NAME CALLER(s), We have many HISPANIC members who did it the LEGAL way and can't stand you aiders of crime.
rhuse: Remember way back when the Clintons went begging for a "legal defense fund" to help them with their problems with the Whitewater scandal? What ever became of that fund that so many Clintonistas (read "dupes") contributed to? It would not surprise me at all if they pocketed it.
And people like the various and sundry anti-Bush, anti-American, pro-illegals anonymouses are calling all conservatives, and especially those in the Bush administration, criminals?
Interesting how about half of the [people sitting in the audience are wearing headphones. It means they either can't speak English or are listening to tunes. I think the new law is a good step but we need more of these baby steps to make a leap.
Defending the indefensible
Hey, conservatives have been doing that for years:
Defending Jim Crow laws in the south, and the public/private enforcement system that meant death or beatings to many who opposed them by doing such outrageous things as registering to vote, riding in a bus, or sitting at a lunch counter.
Supporting the violent removal of democratically-elected governments in Iran, Guatemala, Chile, Nicaragua, and Venezuela.
Supporting repressive dictatorships all over the world, as long as they fit in with the right's agenda.
Supporting the rights of organized capital and opposing the rights of organized labor.
Opposing workplace-safety laws.
Opposing environmental-protection laws.
You get the idea. The right will often use language that gives the impression that they care about ordinary people, but they only care about ordinary people when it serves their purpose. And their only purposes is to gain more power for themselves.
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